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Are you looking for ways to boost your brand’s credibility, trustworthiness, and long-term success? We’re thrilled to welcome back social proof expert, Brittany Herzberg, for an insightful discussion. Together, we delve into the world of testimonials, case studies, and more.
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Links from this episode:
- Subscribe to The Art Of Online Business YouTube Channel
- Download Brittany’s Client Testimonial Guide here.
- Voxer Brittany to get her guide: @BEEHERE
This episode goes beyond the realm of reviews, offering you valuable insights into how to effectively leverage social proof for your brand’s long-term success. You definitely don’t want to miss this!
Kwadwo [QUĀY.jo] Sampany-Kessie’s Links:
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Rick Mulready’s Links:
- Visit Rick’s website
- DM Rick on Instagram
- Full episodes of The Art of Online Business Podcast on YouTube
Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction
00:00 – About Brittany Herzberg
06:18 – SEO helps your copy get found online
09:19 – Use stories to build instant trust
11:18 – Trust through SEO keywords attracts and convinces
13:07 -Simplify questions and be specific for success
18:58 – Craft case study with SEO, keywords; story format connects with readers
21:37 – SEO + story + social proof = magic marketing combination
25:14 – Optimize content with post-analysis adjustments
27:11 – Notify person, get feedback, update case study
30:27 – Improving social proof through easy testimonials requests
35:19 – Capture audio and transcribe, ask for testimonials
37:42 – No need to dress up for Voxer
42:52 – Email as social proof; positive reinforcement received
45:09 – Blind web developer helps improve website accessibility
Speaker 1:
Something that I’ve been saying a lot recently is with case studies specifically. They let people try before they buy, and that’s a big, big thing right now, especially with like the economy and like people are nervous to spend money more so now than they have been in a while, and case studies really let people see. This is what I’m walking into. This is a path that I could take to get to the destination I want to.
Speaker 2:
All right, welcome to today’s episode. My friends, how the heck are you? I’m Rick here, obviously always joined by Wade Joe. We’re gonna be talking about social proof.
Speaker 3:
It’s super important for an online business owner to show that people like them, people do business with them, people have learned and gotten results from their program and after hearing the episode in March with Brittany Herzberg, I thought, Rick, we should have her back on.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, brittany is those of you guys who haven’t listened to the episode in. What was the number? Wade Joe? So it’s 688. 688, march 22nd, I believe, 2023. Definitely check that episode out. It’s not like you have to listen to that one first before listening to this one, but it’s we’re taking it a step further here today and it’s not just like. I mean, you all know that social proof is necessary, right, but we wanna take it. We wanna kind of like carve it up a little bit here today. Talking about you know what exactly it is, how it differs from different. You know whether it’s a case study or what have you how to get good. You know pieces of social proof. You know I was recently in New Hampshire with my daughter visiting my mom and we were I forget what we were looking for. I think it was at the airport or something like that.
Speaker 2:
We’re looking for some food and there was one place that had a huge line and then another place that had like nothing and we’re like, well, that’s the place we have to go to with the huge line, right, it’s like social proof, right then, and there that it’s like, clearly, because of all the people, we’re assuming that it’s better, and that’s sort of what we’re talking about here today when it comes to social proof it’s gonna be a good conversation.
Speaker 3:
By the way, if you’re not watching the YouTube channel, brittany’s right here, hi, brittany.
Speaker 2:
Hi, we’re talking about you when you’re right here.
Speaker 1:
That’s fine, I’m kind of used to it. It’s cool. I mean, that’s social proof, right.
Speaker 3:
Right, and so over the years coaching with Rick inside the accelerator, we have talked about social proof with clients before, and one thing that comes up, which is leading into the first question for you, brittany, is what is the difference between, well, a case study and a testimonial, because I know the listener might be hearing social proof? Great, I’m gonna go ask people to tell and rave about me. But those two kinds of social proofs are really different and they serve different purposes, and I would like you to explain that.
Speaker 1:
I could do that, so I hinted at this. If you did listen to the other episode I shared that a testimonial is like a movie trailer and a case study is like the full movie. And I say that because a testimonial gives you a highlight, a snippet of what happened, but a case study then goes into telling the full story of what happened. So testimonials are great, they are expected. You mentioned social proof in, just in case someone is listening and they don’t know what social proof is. Just like Rick said, we’re looking for those long lines. We are looking for hey, you do this thing, you help people in this way. You have already helped people. These are reasons why they like you. We want to build that know, like and trust, and social proof allows us to do that. Testimonials and case studies just happen to be two of those ways to do that.
Speaker 2:
Now that we’ve distinguished between the two, is there one that’s better than another and sort of like part two to that is. It’s like if we could only get one, which one quote unquote should we try to get?
Speaker 1:
I like this, so I wouldn’t say that one is better than the other. They do different things. Everyone is going to be looking for the testimonials, so you definitely want to make sure you have that. And then you want to have testimonials, no matter what people are going to expect to see that on your website, on your social media, in a pricing guide and things like that. Case studies they might not expect to see but it’s going to, especially if you write them with SEO and story, like we talked about. That’s going to help you get found. So it’s a lead gen and it’s also a conversion piece of marketing and then it could even be a piece of retention marketing as well. I hope I answered part two, because I think I forgot that one.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, when you say retention marketing, do you mean in terms of like a membership or something like keeping the-.
Speaker 1:
Keeping people around.
Speaker 2:
Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
I know that we broke it down in that first episode that we recorded earlier this year, but for those people who haven’t listened to it yet and this is by no means like all encompassing of that episode but can you just sort of share real quick of like what does it mean to have, like story-based testimonial, social proof, case study, that sort of thing?
Speaker 1:
So when you have a story-based piece of social proof like a case study, it really allows you to go deep with those connections with people. Let’s say a stranger is finding you online. They type a question into Google. Your case study shows up. They go over to read it. They’ve never seen your name before. They don’t know the person who’s featured in the case study. A story is going to keep them reading down the page. So what I highlighted in that episode was my pet framework, p-e-t, and what that does is it gives you a structure for that story. What was the problem this person was facing before they worked with you? What was their experience like of actually working with you? And then what’s the transformation internal and external since they worked with you? So that’s like super in a nutshell. But we want to include the story because it allows for those connections. It gives you that no like trust pretty quickly and really just like let someone drop directly into your world.
Speaker 2:
And how is that SEO A bull? How is that Like? What Good word. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:
I like it.
Speaker 2:
What role does SEO or can SEO play in that though?
Speaker 1:
The role that SEO can play and the reason I tuck it into every piece of copy that I do is because I want that piece of copy to help you get found online. I want it to be working for you. I mean, quality of life is really important and that’s something that you guys highlight on this podcast. So SEO lets you go with your life and continues to let marketing happen in the background. So, like I said, someone’s typing a question into Google, your case study shows up. Your testimonials have the capacity to do this as well, if you include some specific keywords in there or just keep an eye out for the keywords in the testimonials, which I’m sure we’ll get to. But that’s what SEO can do is actually make you findable.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, so when you say somebody searches on Google a question in your case study, pops up your testimonial. Where do you recommend that the listener put that on their website to get the biggest effect?
Speaker 1:
Case study or the testimonial.
Speaker 3:
Case study.
Speaker 1:
Case study. You can have it as its own standalone webpage, like if you think of having an about page. You could take a webpage like that and create a case study there. You could also feature them on your blog. I still have I said this last time and I still haven’t found any pros or cons from an SEO perspective of why you should have it as a blog versus a webpage or vice versa.
Speaker 2:
You mean having it as part of a blog post? Actually having it as the blog post, as the blog post, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:
You could do it a couple of different ways, but the way I’m thinking of it is I’m creating this story, I’m highlighting this person and their experience as its own blog.
Speaker 3:
I feel like a lot of people could really use something like this on their about page too, because many about pages are pretty simple and they have the in and in dead end. Yeah, have you seen?
Speaker 1:
that for your clients? Have I seen their about pages just like stopping coming to a complete stop yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and that’s actually a really good point. When you have a case study, no matter how you have it or where you feature it, you can link to it from different pages, which is another SEO thing is actually helping people navigate your site in a smart, strategic way. So you could have it featured on your services page, you could have it featured on your about page, you could have it featured on your home page, you could have it featured on a sales page, like. There’s a ton of different ways to use it.
Speaker 3:
Intriguing. So when I found this post that mentioned this on Instagram, my first thoughts were Wait what’s the post?
Speaker 2:
What’s the post that you saw?
Speaker 3:
Well I can share it for those of the listeners that are watching. But the post was use case studies to pull the real story out of the DMs. And I saw that and it instantly reminded me of when I had my previous business and I was using case studies in my Instagram stories to get DMs and then continue the sales process there, and I thought it would be awesome for the listener if you could explain just your best strategy for using case study or testimonial let’s call it social proof on social media to initiate those sales conversations.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. So again, there’s like a myriad ways that you could use it. But, to keep it simple, I’m a big fan of stories as well, and that is an easy place, especially if you’re like I want to share social proof, but I feel a little bit weird. It feels like bragging. People need to see that. So at least if you just I invite you, slash, challenge you to put it in the stories, whether it’s just a quote from someone, or maybe you have a case study and you’re just going to link it what that’s going to do is, again, we’re kind of building instant trust with that reader, because they see that you’ve helped somebody else and they can go and they can read about how they can verify it. They’re like okay, I can trust them, I could maybe do business with them now or in the future. I like them, like I want to stay in their world and from there they can come back.
Speaker 1:
And I’m the kind of person that if I see a testimonial or if I see a program or if I see something from someone and I like it, I reach out and I say hi and I tell them that I like it. So that’s where that conversation can continue. So you could put it in your stories for sure it goes away in 24 hours. You’re not like married to it, you’re just kind of like this is out here if you want to see it. What you could then do? I don’t hear very many people talking about highlights anymore on Instagram and mine have like they’re there. I haven’t really done much with them, but what you could do is you could have just one highlight dedicated to testimonials. You could have a highlight dedicated to social proof.
Speaker 2:
That’s really good.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
So you’re like you’re using it because I think about it from an ads perspective, I think about it from sales page. I’m thinking more like middle to slash bottom of the funnel, but you’re actually saying use it throughout the funnel If you will like. Use it to attract people in ie top of funnel and then also throughout the funnel.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, because it’s going to be something that, if someone is, let’s say, brand new to your world which, in my world of SEO, does happen people find my clients or they find me because we’ve strategically used keywords so they might be brand new. They don’t know me, they don’t know you guys, and they’re like who is this person? What are they about? Can I actually trust them? Because our trust has been yanked sideways over the last three, four years and people really, really need to see that they can put their trust and put their faith in someone. So, yeah, using it throughout the funnel, not only does it attract people to you, build that almost instant trust with you, but then, as you’re sprinkling it throughout the funnel, you’re also kind of reminding people like, hey, these are results that I’ve gotten for people. These are what those experiences look like.
Speaker 1:
Something that I’ve been saying a lot recently is with case studies specifically, they let people try before they buy, and that’s a big, big thing right now, especially with like the economy and like are we in a recession? Aren’t we in a recession? Is it coming? Is it looming? So, no matter what your take is on that, people are nervous to spend money, more so now than they have been in a while. And one thing you can do is you can lengthen that runway, you can make it a higher touch runway and case studies really let people see this is what I’m walking into. If I want to go this route, this is a path that I could take to get to the destination I want to, so I hope that helps.
Speaker 2:
Yeah totally.
Speaker 3:
But it’s also making me feel like there’s a lot of weight and pressure on this case study or testimonial to perform for the business. It does so much right. So how would the listener best construct or coach somebody who they’re asking for a case study or a testimonial from, so that they get a good case study?
Speaker 1:
I love this and it’s something that is so simple and yet we all kind of I mean I’ve done it in the past like we all kind of mess it up. You just gotta be specific with your questions and you can do that by thinking of what do I want to get from this? How do I want to use it? Maybe you give yourself like that task of figuring out one or two specific places you want to use this.
Speaker 1:
This came up recently with a client. He created a course and we were drafting out the sales page and he’s like what kind of testimonials should I ask my client for? Because he hasn’t sold this specific course yet, but he’s helped people in this way before. So I said ask this specific question and this specific question. And he did and he got back. He was like, wow, that really worked. And he was like, yeah, so the specific questions that you could ask, as an example, would be I love fill in the blank or finish the sentence. I call I actually have a testimonial template and I call it like a mad lives social. So you could say something like before working with Quajo, I didn’t know blank, I was nervous about investing. Before working with Rick because of blank, then you’re actually getting specific lines that you could either use it internally to help you write your copy and tighten up your messaging, or you could actually take those and put those out on social media, use it on your sales page, sprinkle it on your website.
Speaker 2:
So people listening right now were like how do we get this mad lives testimonial? What role does it play in your like? Do you give it away? Is it part of your working with clients?
Speaker 1:
I have given it to clients before and it’s something that I created. A it’s a low-cost digital product is $47. But I created it because I had someone ask me for something like that. She came to me and she was like, how do I get good testimonials? And I was like, oh, here I have this thing, do you want it? So yeah, it gives you a can’t even remember how many questions, but it gives you a list of questions and then you can take it and make it your own. You can add to it, you can delete some, but it helps you understand the structure of how to ask these things.
Speaker 3:
Very cool.
Speaker 1:
I’ll make sure you get the link.
Speaker 3:
I guess we’re gonna have to put that link in the show notes below. You mentioned something and I wanna go back there, because the two words sales page can be quite daunting for anyone who has started making a sales page themselves. Where do you see, are the best spot, like what’s the best real estate on the sales page to put a testimonial or case study?
Speaker 1:
Ooh, that’s interesting. So you wanna put it. I mean, anything above the fold, of course, is gonna be super smart, but there’s only so much space above the fold. So for me, being an SEO copywriter, I’m definitely gonna tell you make sure you have keywords in that H1 headline, which, if I’m speaking like a foreign language to you, your H1 headline is the big giant letters typically at the top of a page. You land on a website. It’s there, like you can’t miss it. So you wanna have keywords or keyphrase in there, so that we’re even making your sales page findable. Of course, there’s typically a button there as well which takes people to check out.
Speaker 1:
If we’re talking about a sales page. You could feature a case study in that area as well. You could have two buttons and break all the rules on sales pages. You could feature a case study a little bit further down. I think another hot place on a sales page is your FAQ section, especially for those skimmers. They’re gonna take a look at the images, take a look at the headlines, take a look at the faces and the testimonials that are on the sales page, but they’re dropping straight to the FAQ section because they’re like give me the information that I wanna know so you could feature a case study even in that section as well. I would recommend you’re not dropping the entire case study, but I would recommend having a photo having a button. So having a photo of the person having a button, maybe having a headline about here’s the big thing that was achieved and you could maybe have one other sentence about it. I’m still kind of playing around with, like, how to feature them in the best way possible, but definitely photos and definitely buttons.
Speaker 2:
Button to what the full case study.
Speaker 1:
Yeah to the full case study.
Speaker 2:
So you’re taking them off the sales page.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, you’re taking them off the sales page, and the last time I was here I mentioned this. Yeah, I know I was really kind of skeptical about it at first, but now that I have seen clients try it, I tried it myself. As long as you have a way to get them back, the people who are invested who really just want to like get that last bit of reassurance like this is for me this is good. They’re gonna come back, so just give them a button on your case study to get back.
Speaker 2:
I remember you did talk. You shared an example of that in that episode. I don’t remember who it was, but you shared an example of that exact thing that you’re talking about and I went and looked at that page and I was like, oh okay, yeah, this makes a lot of sense. And it was that sort of circular. It’s like all right, I’m on the sales page, I want to see more of this case study. Click over to view it. And then I was able to come back Now with that you mentioned image, a headline or a line or something. I know the question that we’re all thinking right now as we listen is there one format of a case study in the way that we deliver it that’s better than another? Meaning like video, written out, pictures, like an infograph, like what’s the best format?
Speaker 1:
So I’m going are we talking about using it on a sales page?
Speaker 2:
I think just in general.
Speaker 1:
So my argument for the how to craft the case study itself, of course, is gonna be you wanna have SEO, you wanna incorporate keywords, you wanna make sure that it’s findable, you wanna be strategic about where you’re linking out to, but at the core of all of it, you want to have it in a story format, because it’s gonna help. It’s gonna help not only the robots to crawl your page and to see what this page is all about and where they should send it the search engines, but also when the people get to the case study. It’s gonna help them with copywriting. We want them to read a line, go down to the next line, go down to the next. We want them going down the page and then making some kind of decision at the end of it. And again, story helps you connect with the person and just like see yourself in that situation and you’re trusting this guide and you’re rooting for the hero and you want to be that person. So that’s how I would answer that about actually structuring the case study.
Speaker 1:
I also have clients who, yes, they have recorded something like this and they feature it, maybe as a YouTube video or something like that, and they will feature that video and let people. Usually it’s embedded so we don’t take them away from the page in case they wanna watch the video. That’s a smart thing to do, but also, if you have, I’ve done podcasts before, where I just did this recently for my case study launch, the training launch and I had a private podcast and I interviewed two different people and in my email sequences on my sales page in different areas, I was linking out and directing them to go listen to that podcast, because, I mean, we all like podcasts. It’s one easy way to connect with someone. You can listen to it in double speed, which I love, and you can do that with video as well. So I almost would argue, give them different formats.
Speaker 1:
With podcasts, we know that SEO is definitely a thing. With YouTube videos, seo is definitely a thing. With copywriting, it’s definitely a thing. So as long as you’re doing it in these ways, that can help you get found. I think that any of them are great.
Speaker 2:
When we’re talking SEO, is it also testimonials or is it just case studies?
Speaker 1:
No, it’s also testimonials, so I will take you through my process a little bit.
Speaker 2:
Yes, please, because what’s coming up for me is like, wait a minute, like if this is somebody saying something right about us, about our offer, whatever it might be, how are we getting the terms quote unquote that we want to be ranking for within that? Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:
No, it totally does, and I’m like chopping it a bit over here. So my big overarching message is that SEO plus story plus social proof is like the most magical marketing combination under the sun. Nothing puts them together like a case study. But even in my case studies guess what? I’m featuring testimonials. So my process with gathering social proof and with taking with my process really for creating a document with SEO keywords and then using that in copy starts with social proof. It starts with me watching an interview, listening to an interview, reading the testimonial template that I talked about, where I’m actually getting those answers from people.
Speaker 1:
What I want to look for in those testimonial quotes is like how are they describing what I do? How are they talking about me? How are they talking about the program? What problems or pain points were they dealing with before they came to me? Why did they choose to work with me? And then, what wins have they had as a result of working with me?
Speaker 1:
And again, we talked about this last time those emotional or internal wins. Everyone is going to have that. Not everyone is going to have the external numbery wins, whether that’s a dollar amount or a number of people or some really impressive stat but they’re always going to have those internal wins. So I always, always, always, whether a client is coming to me for SEO copywriting, for case study copywriting or for keyword research, I’m always starting with what are your people saying? How are they describing it? Because that is what someone else is typing in that search bar, that is what somebody else is going over and clacking away and putting in Google, and that’s where we want you to show up. So hopefully does that sense in circles.
Speaker 1:
OK, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
It makes more sense now. I mean for everybody listening. Like I said before, definitely go back and listen to the episode that I had done back in March with Brittany, because we talk about the whole SEO’s role in leveraging it. We go into this topic that we’re talking about a lot deeper.
Speaker 3:
So I got two questions, though, if I may Go for it. So, hearing this, is there a magic number of prompts that I can give to somebody to, let’s say, I go and I get your SEO or your testimonial case study? Mad lib questions Like how many prompts can I give to somebody? What’s the magic number you’re seeing that yields the best case study?
Speaker 1:
I wouldn’t say that there’s necessarily a magic number, but if someone pushed me to give an answer, I would see three or four questions.
Speaker 1:
OK, and I would say that the ones that you really want to get is you want to get at those problems and the pain points, because you want to figure out where were they before, how did they find you, why did they choose you, and then, what was their experience like and what is life like now? That’s going to take you through the whole thing. Something else came up in my brain and then it went away, so it’s your second one.
Speaker 3:
It’ll come back. If it was meant to be, it will show up again. But the next question then, and I’m sure the listeners super curious about this they asked the prompts, right. What happens when the case study doesn’t come back in the way they intended for it to be and they don’t quite have the quality of case study or testimonial that they wanted? Can they edit it? If so, like? Is that right, is that wrong? How much can they edit it? How do they go? What does that look like?
Speaker 1:
Here’s my answer.
Speaker 1:
Please go back and optimize it. I do this all the time and I do this for my clients. I specifically with that last part I had a client last year. We had written a case study about her client. The client had a six-figure launch her biggest launch ever using this client’s thing. So I went and reached out and was like hey, to the case study subject in air quotes. I was like can I book 15 minutes with you, ask you a few more questions and then go optimize and update the case study? You can always go back.
Speaker 1:
The thing I joke about a lot is that we tend to forget the optimize of search engine optimization. You can always go back and one thing that does for the search engines is that it signals hey, there’s a party over here Like you want to check this thing out. This is still up to date. People are still coming over here. It’s got all the relevant information. So definitely, definitely. If you feel like maybe you’ve already even written a case study and you’re like, oh man, I could go back and optimize it, yeah, I definitely do.
Speaker 2:
So where does ethics legality, all that stuff fall in? That part one of that question?
Speaker 1:
You guys are just crushing it with the question Can you give me what scenarios coming into your mind?
Speaker 2:
So for myself, I think about like, oh, if I, I would feel weird changing. Somebody gives me a testimonial, I would feel weird in changing it in any way. Now I also understand you’re not using the word change, you’re using the word optimize, so there’s a nuance there, I get. I’m picking up on that. What does that mean?
Speaker 1:
Very strategic over here.
Speaker 2:
But you’re saying it’s totally fine to do that. I would think that you know some people that sing right now might be like well, is there like is it ethically okay to do that? You know I’m taking somebody’s words they said and changing it.
Speaker 1:
So I will answer this two parts. If we’re talking about going back and optimizing a case study, the person in my head is already going to be notified, because they’re going to be the one sitting down with me either me the business owner or me the copywriter and I’m going to get their feedback on, like, oh, these things have happened. Oh, and, by the way, you know you could add this thing into the case study as well. That typically comes up in conversation. So they’re already going to have the heads up. If you are deciding on your own to go back and optimize and update the case study, you could. You’re going to miss out on any quotes. So I mean, not only is it a benefit to you to reach out to the person to get updated quotes, it’s also going to be awesome for them because if they’re excited about the case study you wrote about them, they’re going to share it, they’re going to link to it, they’re going to share it, like that’s also a good thing. So I always yeah, I’m like thinking because I’m pausing I’m like did I always have gone back to a person if I’ve ever updated a case study with a testimonial, if you ever? I get this question a lot. So if you ever get a testimonial and you’re like, can I edit this, the answer is yes and you can edit it as long as you’re not like changing the core of what that person was saying in that quote. You don’t want to lose the essence of it. But if we’re talking about this is a common thing that I see.
Speaker 1:
I really liked working with her. The program was great. Instead of her and program, let’s put Brittany, and the case study training let’s put Rick, and you know what I’m saying. So you want to have names in there. Yeah, yeah, be specific. Again, be specific. I feel like there’s a cheer in there somewhere, but you definitely want to have your name, have your program, have your business name, whatever it is, instead of using the pronoun, put the actual thing in there. You’re not changing that core vibe of what the person was saying.
Speaker 2:
Well before Kwejo, because I can see you getting ready. I just want to ask quickly part two to the legal question Like do we have to, we as the gatherer of test, you know, testimonial, I feel like case studies, like almost, because that’s a lot more in depth, but let’s just say, from a testimonial perspective, do we have to get any kind of special? Again, thinking like legally and I understand that you’re not a lawyer but like, yeah, like do we have to get a special permission, you know?
Speaker 1:
So I’m not an attorney and I feel like every attorney would say, yes, you need to have something.
Speaker 2:
Sure.
Speaker 1:
What I typically do is I don’t have a hard and fast rule there and I probably should have some kind of form. Actually, you know what, on some of the forms that I do use, I do have you know. Check this if you’re okay with me using this in my marketing materials.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I do have that. Have I always been 100% great with that? No, but I usually. I would say what I usually do slash, always do is tell someone hey, you know we had this conversation. I pulled a quote, I put it over here on this page. I will send them the link. Are you okay with how this sounds? Are you good with this?
Speaker 1:
Even, oh, I’ve even done this with you, actually, whenever I’ve been on podcast or whenever I’ve been, you know, a guest somewhere or done a guest teaching or been a speaker at a conference. I’ve gotten so much better and I’m really proud of myself, because it’s not easy to do this, but I’ve gotten better with building up social proof for that. Even so, I will write to the person and say, hey, if you felt like I benefited your audience, would you mind like writing a little testimonial? And I think I even have, like, where it’s already prewritten and I modify it for that, I update it for that person, that event, that thing. Yeah, I still kind of got that mad libs askness to it so that I’m making it easy for the person.
Speaker 1:
I have had a couple of people who are like could you just write something and then like send it back to me and give me, you know, the chance to approve it or not. People just you need to make it easy for them. So that’s what I’m going for with the mad lips thing. That’s what I’m going for with. Whenever I write something, people want to kind of give your the thumbs up on it and be like, yeah, this is great, go for it, use it. I’m not going to give you a 10% of the time. That’s what you’re going to run into, but yeah, so it’s probably a great idea to ask, but I haven’t always been wonderful about it.
Speaker 2:
And one of those people that’s like can you write something and send it back please?
Speaker 1:
I was not going to call you.
Speaker 2:
No, please call me out. It’s okay, I’m lazy like that.
Speaker 1:
No, but I get it. You’re busy, people are busy, they have lives. I don’t know what. You know, things are going on in their world, there’s something catastrophic happening and they’re like I want to help you. I just don’t have the capacity. That’s cool, like you just need to make it easy for that person and just like be really gracious with it.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, one small question that popped into my brain was how do you go about editing someone’s grammar in the present day and age? What I’m seeing a lot is there’s a big tolerance for just imperfect grammar and captions, and in stories, most of the creators are letting the grammar errors be there so that people know it’s genuine. But what’s your take on that when it’s in testimonial form? Do you leave them, do you?
Speaker 1:
change them. I like how you said that. It kind of leaves that sense of like authenticity. So I understand that perspective and I think that’s kind of cool. Me being me. I am like a little too.
Speaker 1:
My boyfriend is an editor, Like the two of us like our house is pretty organized, we have things like just so kind of. So like I will edit for grammar and typically it’s like a period isn’t in the wrong spot or a word was in this spelled. So yes, I will edit that. I think that was also my very first message to Brittany McBean, which, like she famously is like I make typos, I make errors, I’m human and of course I think that was my first message to her was like I don’t know if you know this, that’s me, ladies and gentlemen, wow.
Speaker 3:
It’s. Everybody probably has a plaque or this little picture in one of their parents’ house, but the one where it says like let’s eat grandma and then let’s eat grandma. That’s true.
Speaker 2:
So how do we actually I mean, we’ve got the mad libs, you know style questions how do we actually get yeah, Mom, gee them? Are we just emailing? Are we trying to send them a? You know, hey, can you record a quick video, like because we’re talking just a second ago? How do we make this as easy as possible for them to do it? So what are some suggestions for ways to do that?
Speaker 1:
It’s yes to all of the above. So what I like doing is, if we think about, like, a typical workflow of going through a client project, most people don’t ask for any kind of testimonial, feedback, social proof, until the very end. So what if, like hypothetically, let’s say that that’s what we’re going to do the entire time I’m working with that person, I’m going to notice, because I’m a communication bouncer like I’m over on Instagram, I’m on email, I’m like doing whatever, so I’m kind of fine with whatever. But I’m noticing where these clients like communicating with me. Are they always on Voxer? Are they always on Instagram? Are they always texting me? Are they always emailing? What is their preference? Are they always on Loom videos? And you can do any of the above. So, of course, the lowest hanging fruit would even be screenshots, which we haven’t talked about.
Speaker 1:
And we can totally come back to that, but I’ll stick with like the actual like interacting with a client email with that testimonial mad libs template thing, which I love that you guys are embracing.
Speaker 2:
I love mad lives.
Speaker 1:
I do too. So with the mad lives thing, you can email that and it’s a. You can either do it in a form format, like with Google forms, which is free, so there’s no barrier to entry. You just plug this stuff in and use it. You could send the questions in an email if you notice that someone really likes to write long answers.
Speaker 1:
If you’re noticing that someone likes to talk things out, I would say Voxer. If you don’t have Voxer, go to Instagram. But Voxer is really cool because you’re able to capture those audios. I think if you have the pro plan, you can capture the audio, but even if you don’t, you can sit there and, you know, transcribe it and then video. If you notice that people are doing a lot of loom videos back to you, ask them for a video testimonial.
Speaker 1:
But one thing to note with when you go to actually ask them is you probably it depends on the person but you probably don’t want to hit them with all the questions at once. There were a couple of exceptions to that where I needed like we run a short deadline. The person knew that they had a finite amount of time. They would answer things like really, really late at night. So I’m like I’m going to send you like five questions, answer them at your leisure, and I sent them like one at a time and I think we did this over Voxer. So interact with them where they like interacting, and then just be mindful of should I send one question at a time or should I send multiple.
Speaker 3:
Even if you’re only asking four questions. I know we pressed you for a number and you kind of gave up unwillingly of it. So even with those questions, don’t bombard somebody all at once.
Speaker 1:
Take into consideration who they are. Because, again, maybe it makes sense. And when I did that with the client on Voxer, I still made one voice memo per question, so it was like here’s one thing, here’s thing too, here’s thing. So it didn’t feel like they had to go back and listen to like a three minute Voxer, they could just listen to the 22nd ones instead.
Speaker 2:
It reminds me of so before I don’t know if it was before my sabbatical or what, but like I was interviewed for a what’d you call it? It’s kind of a challenge. No, it wasn’t a challenge sort of a challenge, but they were sort of a challenge where they were, you know, showcasing different quote unquote experts on different topics, and I thought it was really interesting the way that they did it. I mean, granted, they scheduled a time to have a Voxer conversation with me, and so I thought that was really interesting because, like, they asked me one question and I answered it via Voxer and then we sort of went back and forth and then there was a delay, like for whatever reason, me getting back to them, but like it just made it super easy for me, even though it was scheduled, it was also really, you know, felt loose and just was easy for me to respond that way.
Speaker 1:
And I don’t know if you feel like this, but, like being on video, I don’t get all dolled up like some people do, like they spend a lot of time to get on camera and they just feel like they have to look a certain way. I know that people just want to hear what I have to say and so I’m so hung up on all of that. But with Voxer even still it is it’s just a casual like you don’t have to get ready for a camera, you can just show up and say whatever you need to say. And with the nature of Voxer, you could be, you know, parked in your car waiting for your kid to get out of school, to pick them up or whatever. You could be like at the grocery store. You could be doing different things.
Speaker 2:
I was at the coffee shop. I just pulled up to the car. I remember exactly where I was. I just pulled up to the coffee shop getting ready to go to get a coffee and I was doing the interview right there.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it lets you do, and that’s kind of cool too. Like I mean, that’s a really neat idea that my brain just went into, like, oh, I could do this whole event. But like having coffee with someone and actually like making that, the experience of like I’m sitting down, I’m having coffee, I’m talking with you, like to me that’s what Voxer always feels like.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, sorry Kwejo, I had to go down the. I had to go down that route for a second Cari carry on, that’s okay.
Speaker 3:
I keep muting my microphone because it sounds like the world is ending outside my window. I mean, I had that a little while ago. No, but thanks for the Voxer tip, because that actually is a. It’s not often that you hear a new, brand new idea, and I hadn’t actually heard of conducting an interview on Voxer before.
Speaker 1:
I have to give credit where credit is due. Brenna McGowan got me on Voxer. I was wondering that’s who it was. Yeah, it was Brenna’s summit. Summit, not challenge.
Speaker 2:
I apologize. Yeah, it was, it was it was unique in that the way that she was doing it and I really liked it because it made it super easy for me yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, her summit thing is called behind the launch, so keep an eye out for that for listening. But she’s the one that got me on Voxer and now I absolutely love it and people can’t get me away from Voxer, so it’s a little bit of a problem, but it’s only somewhere that I can go live away from Instagram and I try to keep all the business-y stuff over there. So for me, with me being like really organized, it just works really well. That, like that’s where I go, that’s where I talk to clients, that’s where I talk to my coaches. It’s a place that I can.
Speaker 1:
Again, I can grab those voice memos and this is even something that you could do for your own social proof. I have had someone leave a really good voice memo and then I asked them if I could take that and use that, because you can pull Voxer memos and you can use the URL and you can like leave that into an email. Brenna has done this beautifully and again, that’s who I learned it from. You can pull the Voxer, you can pull that link and you can use it. I know there’s just like a world of possibilities, but audio like, if you’re not going to do video, at least do audio because that gives you that instant connection to the person.
Speaker 1:
I mean you’re sitting here listening to a podcast because you’re like audio. Think about why that is and think about what you could do with that for your audience.
Speaker 2:
You also mentioned screenshots.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:
Like I was going to ask that earlier but I was like are we getting? Is it too like a technical of a question? But I always find that like especially if it’s in like a community or a Facebook group or something like that, where you grab a screenshot with their permission, of course. If it’s a screenshot, I don’t know it. For me personally, like psychologically, it holds a little higher value rather than just something written out Like what’s your thought on that?
Speaker 3:
Oh, answer that please, because I’ve had other people argue the other way and say screenshot is kind of cheap and they would rather just lift the text and then type it onto the website. So I got to hear what? What have you found that’s better?
Speaker 1:
Here we go.
Speaker 2:
So I love screenshots For those of you who are not watching, brittany just leaned back in her chair and cracked her knuckles like like, just like, let me in, let’s go.
Speaker 1:
Okay, I love screenshots because I am all about, like, authenticity and being genuine. So if you have this screenshot, that’s that person’s words, I mean, unless you’re taking the time that none of us have to go and fabricate screenshots. I mean, if you’re doing that, all right, that’s, that’s a way. But I love screenshots because it just shows that interaction between those people and I never thought about using it for myself until I started seeing them on sales pages and on other people’s social media. I was like, oh, I really like that. They had a conversation with a person and here we are and there’s a few different ways that you can do screenshots, because I also want to talk about accessibility of them here, because I learned a really awesome tip from Erin Perkins, so bring me back to that if I forget. But when it comes to screenshots, if you were talking about, like, if you’re in a Facebook community or something like that and you’re getting the permission from the person to include their picture and their name, that’s cool and you can also use screenshots without identifying who the person is and you don’t have to go in. That’s why, in my head, it’s kind of like a really low hanging fruit, because you could have, like I’ve done this before, where I have a client. It’s really funny. I’ll tell you the whole story.
Speaker 1:
But, like I had a client who texted me and I grabbed a screenshot just of the words. You couldn’t tell who sent it, there was no picture, there was no name, there was no company, it was just her words. I put it in an email and used it as social proof or something. And I reached out to her and I was like hey, I don’t know if you saw, but you I mentioned you know this is in the email this week. At the same time she was writing me to say, oh my gosh, you used that. That’s amazing.
Speaker 1:
People’s biggest fear with doing something like that and using a screenshot is that people are going to come back at them and be mad and be upset and be offended. They are most often flattered, they love and, especially if they’re in your community and they consume your stuff, they are flattered that you do that. And so for me, having that positive reinforcement, I was like, oh, people like this, I know I like it. So that’s kind of cool to hear that from other people. So in my mind, in my practice, I don’t ask necessarily if I’m not going to identify them?
Speaker 3:
If I’m going to identify them, I definitely ask do you consider including somebody’s Facebook profile picture on a screenshot identifying them?
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:
I do and I have done that and again, if I’m going to do it, I’m gonna ask them before I do that. I don’t even take the screenshot Before I ask them if I’m gonna have any identifying information in there.
Speaker 2:
Accessibility Aaron Perkins.
Speaker 1:
Yes, aaron Perkins, okay, you have to have her on if you haven’t had her on. Like highly recommend. She’s amazing. She is deaf and blind and she has all of these tips and tricks about. You know how to make your anything accessible.
Speaker 1:
And I remember asking her when she came on our show about the screenshots, because I was like I have these things. They have great text. How do I make it so that someone can read it? Do I shove all of that in the alt text? Her recommendation, of course you’re going to keyword, like create a keyword, rich image title. You’re going to write screenshot in the alt text and then under the actual screenshot and I will send you a page where I’ve done this on mine. I’m kind of like going through and updating them underneath the image in the caption. Basically, that’s where you put what is stated in the screenshot, and I have had some that are like super long or I didn’t need to quote everything, but I pulled out the quotes that I needed the person to hear, Because what happens is there’s these things called screen readers and I’ve had my friend Robbie, who is also blind she’s a blind web developer which I don’t know how she does it, but it’s incredible.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
I don’t, she’s got skills. But she had me on the phone one day and she was like this is what my screen reader is picking up on your website and it was reading and that was when I learned, oh, I can’t have like IMG 4532, because that’s what it’s saying to her. She has no idea what that image looks like. So when, when you have a screenshot and you do the alt text and the caption like that you have, the screen reader is like gonna read the alt text as screenshot and then it’s gonna read the image caption as whatever you type in there. So they’re hearing that really important part, the end.
Speaker 2:
I’m so glad you bring that up, like I Haven’t thought about that. It’s like, yeah, yeah, that’s awesome.
Speaker 1:
It’s huge, and it’s not only huge from an accessibility standpoint. In my mind, that’s what comes up first. Sure, it happens to also benefit your, your SEO strategy, because you’ve got keywords in there which again Grabbing the testimonials, grabbing the screenshots, grabbing the social proof that has the keywords in there. Here’s another place that you get to use it.
Speaker 3:
Please tell me you have like a quick and dirty guide To kind of pull all this together that somebody can go get and download and just be off to the races which?
Speaker 1:
I do so. It’s I think it’s called the client testimonial guide. I kept it really simple, but you guys definitely have the link to it and it walks you through how to gather Social proof, what you’re really looking for, how to actually like go and ask the people in the right places, and then even how to use it. So, yeah, it’s pretty comprehensive and it’s free.
Speaker 2:
Do you dare to give out your voxer? Oh, and have people Vox you for the link.
Speaker 1:
No pressure, I didn’t be kind of like wants to, let’s try it, why not? Okay, so I will give you the actual written out, but it’s be ee H e re, be here be ee. H e re.
Speaker 2:
For those of you aren’t watching right now, Brittany is very nervous, all of a sudden. I’m telling you our audience is Freaking amazing and they bring it.
Speaker 1:
They just remind me, if you box, just remind me what I was supposed to give you.
Speaker 2:
All right. So for all of you who are on voxer, or if you want to get on voxer, just to box Brittany, be here, be ee H e re. That’s Brittany’s like screen name.
Speaker 1:
Mine is like some yeah before she changes it.
Speaker 2:
Mine is some weird, I don’t know. It’s like got numbers and stuff in it, so it’s be here. And Vox Brittany that you heard her on the podcast here and say, hey, can you send me the link to the complete client testimonial?
Speaker 1:
How to guide thank you, I’m really glad that you had the name.
Speaker 3:
Or you can go ahead and grab that from the link in the show notes.
Speaker 1:
I mean whichever?
Speaker 3:
whichever, I am convinced. I’m convinced, rick, that it was a good decision to bring Brittany on again.
Speaker 2:
Oh, thanks I think it’s the best you can tell the best conversations with you guys. She brings it. Thank you, Brittany. Thank you for sure.
Speaker 1:
I’m back on you appreciate you. I’m gonna. I’m gonna let you know if I regret this box or decision.
Speaker 2:
Everybody. It please be nice to Brittany. I know everybody listening to the show is like high integrity. I don’t. I’m not concerned about that. They’re just gonna reach out say Thank you for the episode, appreciate it. Hey, can you send me that guide?
Speaker 1:
Give me the guide, yeah exactly. I’ll have, like so many new best friends. It’s gonna be awesome. Yeah, I will never get worked on again and I’m sorry you won’t be able to hire, but you’re going on silent, good to work right.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, that’s a. That’s a wrap for the episode. Thank you for listening and if you enjoyed this episode, rick and I would appreciate it if you clicked through to Apple podcast, if you’re listening there, and left a Specific review of what kind of value you got from this episode. It really does help this podcast reach more established online course creators and coaches. So again, thanks for taking that two minutes to leave a review and We’ll see you later. Thanks, y’all.
