If you’re spending money on Facebook and Instagram ads but aren’t sure they’re helping your launches, Shannon Matson has a simple approach worth hearing.
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Shannon shares how she grew from $16,000 organic launches to seven-figure launches without running the ads herself. We talk about how she uses ads to bring in new people, warm them up, and lead them toward her offer.
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When Ads Feel Like A Mystery
SPEAKER_01
So I’m spending money on ads and I’m spending hours in ad manager, and I still can’t tell if the results are worth either cost my personal time or the ad spend. So, dear listener, if you have said some version of that to yourself in the last few months, this episode is well, it’s gonna feel like fresh air, you know, like you’re able to breathe again. Because my guest today is Shannon Matson. If you’re watching on the YouTube channel, you can already see her. Hey Shannon.
SPEAKER_00
Hi.
SPEAKER_01
And if you’re not watching, well, click down in the show notes below and head over to the YouTube channel so you can see us. She is the founder of the social bungalow. Shannon went from VP of marketing running national campaigns for Russell Wilson and J Lo. I’m laughing because before we hit record, I read it J. Lo. And I’m like, is that an investment firm or something? But um we are talking about J Lo. Um, I will not sing one of the songs that still goes through my mind from the early 2000s when I was clubbing in China, but that J-Lo, and she went from doing that to building an eight-figure online business coaching company from scratch. So Shannon has a launch strategy or a launch ad strategy, I should say, that is specifically designed to be run from the CEO seat and not from inside of Meta Ad Manager. And she’s gonna walk us through exactly how it works, including the parts that did not work at first, because we all have a bit of a Facebook and Instagram ad journey before we have success with ads. Um, intriguingly enough, Shannon’s journey was a bit different, and she had success lots of it from the get-go. She’ll tell you more by the end of this conversation. You’re gonna have a clear picture of what your relationship with Facebook and Instagram ads could look like when you stop being the one to run them. Shannon, it’s good to see you again after all these years. Welcome to the episode.
SPEAKER_00
Thank you. Thank you for the intro. A shout out, J.Lo.
The No-Fluff Marketing Mindset
SPEAKER_00
I’m so excited to get into all of it. It’s gonna be a blast.
SPEAKER_01
So, funny enough, before we get into how you actually started running ads, and it wasn’t you, you hired an ad manager from the get-go, which I found very, very intriguing. I have something to tell you. Are you ready?
SPEAKER_00
Oh gosh, yes.
SPEAKER_01
Oh gosh. So, um, dear listener, you’re gonna love this episode, and you may have to probably will have to scrub back to listen to all the gold nuggets that Shannon drops. Shannon, what I did not tell you before I recorded is like I bought one of your courses and have consumed your content for quite a while, ever since we met in person back in the day when I was in a mastermind and we were meeting in the upstairs of the your coffee shop in Las Vegas. Yeah. And there is one thing about you, you and I are quite different. I feel like you are truly no fluff. Like when I listen to you talk, it’s like it’s like BB gun pellets, like machine gun style. And there’s like, so not in a bad way, but I have a I have a CPA, right? And he’s like, he’s the person that handles the books, and we Lord knows we need our CPAs, right? But when I ask him questions, like all humor is lost, and he just gives me a straight answer, and it’s like it’s almost like talking to Claude, you know, and you can see his brain thinking and the lines coming out. Well, you obviously have much more personality than my CPA, but there’s zero bluff. And as I listen to like, I’ve listened to you in your courses, and I’ve seen you talk online, and I’m like, How does she do this? Like, there’s zero wasted speech, there’s zero wasted words, there’s like so much like goodness coming out that I’m like, I could have listened to this three times and still not get all the stuff that like strategy and skills that you just dropped.
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
SPEAKER_01
So um, I’m honored to have you here. How do you do it, by the way?
SPEAKER_00
No pressure, geez, thank you. That is really edifying to hear. Um, I love a nitty-gritty, like we were talking about prior. And my uh I kind of struggle even with small talk in the sense of, well, what’s the truth? And and what are we trying to say? And in corporate, that was one of the biggest reasons I needed to become an entrepreneur because we would have meetings to have meetings to have meetings. And I’m like, what are we actually saying right now? So that uh being able to let my freak flag fly with the no fluff has been an incredible part of the journey. So thank you. That’s really rewarding to hear. And I’m doing so good. It’s so good to see you again and get to hang out. I think the coffee shop time was maybe four years ago, and then just watching your journey expand with the podcast and everything that you do and how great you are at in-person, in connection, community, friendship, and showing up for people has been really inspiring to me too.
SPEAKER_01
Thank you so much. Well said. Shall we get started with ads? Let’s shall. All
Why She Hired Ads Help Early
SPEAKER_01
right. So I know that we’re going to get into a very cool nitty-gritty launch strategy, if you will, that’s helped you literally have these successful seven-figure launches and use Facebook and Instagram ads to support that. Before we get there later in the episode, though, I must know how in the world did you decide to just start off with Facebook and Instagram ads by paying for ads management? Can you like walk me through the context for that, how many years into business it was, and like where you were at revenue-wise, if you’re comfortable sharing, that kind of thing?
SPEAKER_00
Um, I think a big part of that is coming from corporate. I was in a marketing department with people in specialties. So I have a designer, I have a, you know, a videographer. I know that I’m not going to be the one-stop shop. And that mentality plus an opportunity of meeting somebody great who was an ads manager is kind of a perfect storm. So in 2018, I started the social bungalow as your outsourced director of marketing because that’s what I was doing in corporate essentially. And I had to very quickly start to become the doer. So I was doing my client social media management. I was showing up locally and hosting the events, et cetera. And I realized how I was only one person. And when I would give the strategies to my client, there would only be so much success because they did not have the marketing knowledge. So I started to teach and I made my first course and I launched it online. And at the time it was incredible. It made $16,000. It blew my mind to make that much in one go. And I was just showing up really strong for it. And I caught the attention of Jordan Lee Dooley, if you know her online. She is um the author of Own Your Every Day and has subsequent books since then, but is more on the life side, even though she had her own online business. So she wanted to do a combo course where it was life and business. I caught her attention. She reached out to me to ask if I wanted to teach that portion as a partnership. I said yes, flew out to her home in Indiana. We recorded all of the curriculum. It never saw the light of day because she ended up pivoting, which was great, totally fine. But during this happening, I know, uh, during this happening, she was actually live launching something else. And she had an ads manager that she got on a call with. And that man, I met him. She’s like, Do you want to come on the call and see what’s happening here? And as he was laying out this launch strategy for her, it was chess and I was playing checkers or something even more rudimentary than that. I was my brain was blown. I was like, this is amazing. So I asked her if she’d be comfortable if I got his contact information and reached out to him afterwards. He told me the investment rate and it was beyond my ready level at the point internally. I probably could have scrounged it with another course launch, but I just didn’t feel ready to invest. So I went through and I did the same thing again and I made a similar amount of money. And I’m doing it all organically at this point, but I knew ads would blow things up for me, and I know advanced strategy would blow things up for me. So it’s now 2019, and I retained his services and he did a holistic package where it was helping to sketch out the strategy, setting up the funnels, and running the ads. So that was my first foray. And I remember writing down in my notebook over and over again, I will make $100,000. I will make $100,000, put all of my heart and soul into it. With his support, we then hit like $104,000 in that launch. So the first time that I decided to addify the launch was with his support out of the gate. And so again, perfect storm with the corporate mentality and then with meeting this person. And that really set me off on a journey from there.
SPEAKER_01
The first time out of the gate. But what I believe I heard is you did your launch organically twice before hiring him?
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
SPEAKER_01
Okay. So this comes back to something that I always say. Um, which is Jesus saves Facebook and Instagram ads do not. And so, like more eyeballs on like a bad offer or an unproven launch or funnel, that’s a bad way to do business. And you already proved to yourself and everyone else by running the launch twice that it was profitable. And I’m guessing quite profitable before you hired an ads manager.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it was, I think the second time I made 24,000, so it was 16 and then 24. And it was a self-study course, so it was just the upfront work of creation and marketing, and of course, onboarding and success for students, but it is self-study, so they were at it from there and therefore quite profitable and no ads, yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Okay. Looking back at it now, I know you know how to run the numbers. Um, back after your second launch, after you were already at least in mentally saving and making sure you had enough to afford the ad manager. What did the launch debrief look back look like back then? As in, did you run all the numbers specifically, if you can remember now? Because this is many years ago, or was it like I just know there’s enough profit here to support the ad manager running the ads and we’re gonna make it to $100,000?
SPEAKER_00
Um, it was such the era of Facebook groups, and I had built up a decent-sized community at that point. For me, I think there was maybe like five, six thousand people in there, and I was hosting lives in the Facebook group all the time. So there was already a trained up culture of consuming from me in that way. And therefore, when I launched, I did a five-day challenge that was on Zoom, streamed into the Facebook group, and it had a you know, clear purpose, great marketing, good positioning, therefore lots of attendance. So my organic opportunity payoff was high yield due to the community that was built in there. Um, so instead of it being like a one-off opt-in page title event, it was more I was kind of cashing in on community. Um, so that just kind of would skew the hard and fast black and white of it in my mind. But as far as then looking at the money in the bank and the opportunity for the investment, I do think that there was a little bit of that just entrepreneurial risk reward that I knew this investment was going to pay off. I saw the level he was playing at what he was doing for Jordan. And I thought if I could get not only access to that, but also a taste of the internal understanding of how this strategy is running, that would be such an investment into also my education online, too.
SPEAKER_01
Nice. So you knew him via Jordan, and so it also was an educated investment.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
I like that.
SPEAKER_00
And he did this very smart thing where it’s, I think normally his launch price was at the time 18 to 20,000 for his services holistically, and he does this six thousand dollar first launch special. So you are so hooked, and then you’re like, okay, no-brainer, we’re continuing on from here. Um, so that was also a lighter level to get into it at that point.
SPEAKER_01
That is really, I haven’t heard of that. But so he knew that he knows that he’s good at what he does, and so he allows somebody to come in for the first time at a more accessible price point, and then he can do his magic, and then you can afford that’s that’s that’s actually really brilliant. I’m gonna have to think about that. Yeah, yeah, that’s pretty cool. Yeah, so fast forward me a bit, or what were you gonna say?
SPEAKER_00
I was gonna say, I think now he also does um profit share with some of his clients too. So if you’re noodling on the strategy, that’s another angle.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I I met a lady, I was in Boise a couple of weeks ago at Kit’s Craft Plus Commerce event. I used to say craft and commerce, but it’s a plus sign. Did you know that?
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I used to say and as well.
SPEAKER_01
Right. So now that I can read, um, craft plus commerce. And this lady does a profit share model on event hosting, but she’ll like design your event, get all the vendors, do basically you just have the idea, or she’ll make the idea for you and throw a successful event. And I realized people who are very good at what they do have a track record of really just crushing it and making lots of money for the person they’re doing it for, and they didn’t go like a revenue share model.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there’s a lot of confidence in that claim. And when somebody wants a revenue share, I’m always like, oh no, because I know you’re gonna be so good at this, and I would rather pay and make more because I think I’m gonna end up paying you more if we do Rev share because I can tell your confidence is here, which is great for them.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, if we know that we can give money and then get a huge return back, then most folks are like, as long as I have the money, I’m gonna go for it. And if I have the stretch, if it was like almost guaranteed, then for sure. So back to your ads journey.
How Launches Grew Toward Seven Figures
SPEAKER_01
You said seven-figure launch. That’s a big number. Walk me through the parts that you want to share of how you went from 16,000 organically in revenue for a launch to the next amount to hiring this ad manager and getting to seven figures. Like how many launch iterations was that? You know, how did you feel?
SPEAKER_00
What’s up with it? Tell me. Totally. Okay, so at the time, um, it’s 2019, and I’d created this primary course, and all of those clients then were ready for the next focus point. So then I made another course, another course, another course, and I ended up with six in total from 2019 to 2022 slash three. And that was this double dip effect where the current client was buying the next step in their journey. So I knew that I was going to have this lifetime value of another purchase. And then we were bringing in new and fresh people, and then it was this snowball going down a mountain, kind of packing in snow as we went for that reason. So, because of that, it was a beautifully profitable time. I was also poised in a great position for when people started coming online due to COVID and looking for online courses about online business and growing and scaling that. So I would say that the Holy Trinity, for lack of a better word, of people coming online in the COVID boom, um, having an organic audience that was ready to buy the next thing. So a bunch of regulars, and then adding on the ads for then round after round to continue to grow. That took us to a 200 and then a 500 and then a 700 and all the way up to the million mark over these six different courses and the launches as we went. We actually ended up um partnering together on one of the programs too, and did a split, did a split RevShare model in that instance as well. And so, with all of those things, it was a really profitable journey. It was a great time to make that much money, but it was additionally a very robust offer suite that I then ended up dismantling and rebuilding. So, you know, a good journey monetarily, but then also a lot of learnings along the way of that is a lot to manage message and market all of the time, six different primary offers.
SPEAKER_01
That’s a ton. So tell me then, now that you’ve had a seven-figure launch and all of these offers, I would love to just know you have so much to share. Honestly, as I’m formulating this question, my mind is thinking about one of the most impactful things I ever learned from you. And I know this episode isn’t about that, so we can’t go too far into the weeds on this little detour, but you were the first person, and I think the only person I’ve ever heard of who so accurately can describe this amazing, and I think you call it the secret email upsell system. What do you call it? Wait, give me more. You would talk about how somebody could come into, let’s say, the business ecosphere one way through a lead magnet or through one course, and then there’s like this automated system of emails that is literally upselling them into the next thing that logically they need to continue the growth of their business. And you were referring to it, I think, by the name like a secret email upsell system or something like this. It’s been a while since I watched your course.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
But my main question is where did you go from there? Having a successful launch with Facebook and Instagram ads and so many offers, then to using Facebook and Instagram ads to support the growth the growth of your business in between launches, and then you have like the email upsell systems going on. Like, I’m just curious how that worked.
SPEAKER_00
Okay, great context. So,
From Six Courses To One Offer
SPEAKER_00
with the six different courses, I then got to this point where it I was just like living in launch land constantly and then finding, you know, now everybody’s bought everything, so it’s consistently cold and new traffic and new launches. And my audience was, I thought, getting a little bit like the boy who cried wolf. Here I go again, launching number two of six and three of six and on and on. So I wanted to make sure that I could have it as evergreen as possible. So each one of them had their own standard evergreen funnel, like a freebie that detonates, then a series of emails that sells you on the course. But I wanted to really leverage as much as I could because they really were built to be kind of this anthology of courses that all together helped you scale. One was about offer creation, one was about live launching, one was about uh marketing, social media, community growth, et cetera. So you, it was like Pokemon, you got to catch them all. So I built out this six funnel, uh six course funnel that then no matter which way you entered, it would then cross-sell you to the other course that would be the best add-on. I had a little bit of coupon action, I had a little bit of urgency action, but it was mostly just this brain, this mind map of getting them all connected based off of when you came in. And that plus live launching kept the business at its, you know, great annual revenue marker. But the market started to shift heavily in 2023-ish, was my opinion. And I started to see that change. And I also internally was shifting too. I was craving a little bit more intimacy with my clients versus the self-study style offers. I was craving something that I could really feel great had every answer in it, because there was this effect of they were like separate books instead of separate chapters in one book. So I would have somebody purchase and they’d say, This was such a great strategy, but I need more social media following. And I’d say, yeah, go grab this. And then they’re like, this is great, but I need to refine my offer. And I’m like, great, go grab this. And I wanted to be able to say, here is the program. So with the market shifting, with AI, with more saturation, with a market of smarter buyers and more sophisticated individuals, and then me changing as well. I basically burned down all the courses and I rebuilt one signature offer that is a main focus, but it has a little bit of everything that I was previously teaching now in one book with separate chapters versus separate books. And that shift came in 2024. So now it’s in about its third year of existence. And I have made the same amount of money with one primary offer as I did with six separate offers. Um, and of course, we can get into pricing models and back-end strategies. Cause that’s to your point, one of the things that I’m always trying to do is leverage an initial purchase into so much more retention than attempting to get a new customer over and over. Um, so yeah, that that has really been in the past few years the journey of rebuilding from a primary signature offer versus six different okay.
SPEAKER_01
All right. Well, listener, I know you’re like, Queijo, ask the questions. Let’s dive into this strategy, but we cannot because this episode only has so long before we must finish. So
Private Podcast As Milestone One
SPEAKER_01
at this point in the episode, if you want to get into Shannon’s world and learn more from her, direct yourself down to the show notes below. And look for the link to her private podcast, which is titled WTF Is Happening in the Online Space, an unfiltered breakdown of 2026 of the 2026 Attention Economy, uh, what’s happening or what’s changing and what’s working right now. I promise you. As much as I always say nothing is guaranteed, I promise you, you put your name and your email on there, and then you will get into her world. And she is just full of so much strategy on strategy, on strategy. Um, benefit for sure. So Shannon, back to you because I know we’re going to talk about actually, we’re gonna get a little meta and we’re going to talk about what I just shared about that’s linked up in the show notes of this episode because you use that to qualify or drive traffic or grow your email list. How does that relate to your launch? Now, now we’re getting into break this seven-figure launch system down and how this private podcast fits into that.
SPEAKER_00
Okay. I’ll go launch version and then uh we can explain how then in between launches I use the same resource. So the private podcast that you just heard about WTF is happening in the online space. It is a five-episode series. It takes about an hour’s worth of a listen, and in it, it will break down exactly what is going on online right now and what buyers are wanting instead. And ironically, or unfortunately, this I re record this show about every six months because things are changing so rapidly in such nuanced contextual ways. And so this is season three. It’s accurate for this version of the market. And if you opt into it, you’ll hear a more accurate version in three. Six months from now as well. And so the way that I use it is a what I call milestone one, milestone two approach when I’m launching. I use the word milestone instead of lead magnet and conversion event because your lead magnet can be so many different types. And I like to think about it more as this intrinsic motivation planter than about it as this like lead driver, meaning in milestone one, you could have a PDF, a Telegram channel, a private podcast, a quiz. Doesn’t matter its container, but its goal is to meet your consumer in the problem that they’re already aware of. So we’re starting problem aware, we’re not starting unaware. And then inside of it, take them on a journey of discovery towards the solution. So that as they walk out of that resource, they’re now speaking your vocabulary to say, ah, this is the problem. And then in milestone two, I don’t care if it’s a workshop, masterclass, challenge, et cetera, but I would love for it to be live when you’re launching. You bring everybody together and then you take this solution that they’re now privy to and you show them the framework to achieve it. And that’s the what, whereas then your offer is the how. So to add a little more specific to that, in my milestone one, I love a private podcast because I can just verbally explain everything that I want somebody to understand about the current online space and what I think you need to do in order to be able to stand out and scale. And in my terms, with my new offer, it is all about you having a signature offer that is group program style, that is for your intermediate market, that is around mid-ticket, that has a curriculum base, that has two tiers, that has a back-end retention. I have all these nuanced proprietary approaches to what type of offer is working now and why that as the nebulous of your business informs your messaging, informs your content, and helps you scale. So I want to meet you in WTF is happening in the online space in that problem of like, oh my gosh, my messaging is off, my competitors are everywhere. AI is taking people for DIY rides, and I can’t seem to close like I used to. What’s happening? And I’m going to meet you in that pain. We’re going to cathartically talk about why, and then I’ll show you what to do instead. Have a signature offer that owns your worldview that people can’t unsee and say, you’re my person, this is my process. So as you exit that show, you should be thinking, ooh, I don’t know if I have a signature done in the way that I could that would really help me scale. So then I have a conversion event, and that’s my milestone too. Sometimes I do a one-off session, sometimes I do a challenge. It just depends on the season. But then I will basically say, if you want to take a signature offer and scale it in today’s market, come and join me at this class. And then I will show you what you need to do. And then inside of my signature offer, make it online, which is where we build this together. That is then how we do it. So my goal is always to get somebody into the podcast and into the conversion event, Milestone One, Milestone Two. But I love to double dip dip betwixt them essentially. So I always want my conversion event figured out by the time I release the fresh season of WTF. So that when somebody’s listening, the description in the show notes is then an opt-in for that conversion class that’s coming up in, let’s say, a month’s time at the furthest out point. Therefore, organically or through paid ads, which we’ll talk about, if you are listening to the podcast and you are opting into the mass master class, let’s say, I do not have to pay for you twice. I can get you in there through that first go. So yeah, that that’s why I call it like a double dip strategy, because I’m able to then shoot them over there. And as we know, uh typically a lead magnet of some sort is going to cost less for the signup than it is for a live conversion class of some sort. So in that I’m able to get a lower cost lead who is double indoctrinated, knows the solution, and feels like intrinsically motivated towards I need a signature offer. And then we’re able to meet together at class. And then I’ll pause after this. When I’m in between launches and I don’t have a live class happening, that WTF private podcast is still my primary lead magnet, my primary driver. I just change the call to action inside of the episodes to something else in the show notes that’s a little more asynchronous. It might be a low-ticket offer, it might be an on-demand class that’s also free. So I’ll play with what that next step is, but I am always driving my traffic towards it to then double dip into more.
SPEAKER_01
Nice. So the M1 WTF is happening in the online space, does do double duty, if you will, or it’s like a uh Swiss Army knife between your launches. When you’re far away from the launch, its call to action has like a low-ticket offer or another course that makes sense, so to speak. Yes. When you’re closer to the launch, then its call to action actually is to register for the upcoming launch or the upcoming conversion event, M2.
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
SPEAKER_01
For the listener that is running repeatable launches or launches repeatedly right now, and they want to get a little technical. How long before your launch, like when is that switch over point from a general purpose low-ticket offer to uh a call to action to register for the M2 conversion event, or we’ll just say the launch event in this case?
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
SPEAKER_01
How many weeks out?
SPEAKER_00
This
Seven Weeks In Heaven Timeline
SPEAKER_00
whole system that I’m explaining, I call to my clients seven weeks in heaven because I like to change launching from feeling like something heinous to feeling like something heavenly. So it’s a seven-week process, and it is from the first week is you announcing M1, and the seventh ending week is closed card. So what we’ll do is announce milestone one. And I love to give it about three-ish weeks in the sun by itself. So everybody who’s coming into that, then they’re double dipping into the conversion event, but the public doesn’t know that. So it makes it to where my my main promo is just about milestone one. That is the way, the truth, and the light is getting this quiz, getting this private podcast, whatever it is. Then from there, I uh promote the conversion event, the milestone two. And that, depending on the timing, is two to three weeks. I prefer it to be as long as I can, like let’s say three weeks, because what I usually do with ads is I give one week to organic promo, and then I do two weeks with ads turned on so that I am not paying for somebody who would have organically opted in for it, anyways. And then at that event, I always open up cart. I’m pitching live, and then it’ll have an early bird special and then an open cart to close cart ratio. So if you do three-ish weeks here, two-ish weeks here, two-ish weeks of conversion, it ends up being about seven weeks. And there’s a little bit of wiggle room in there, depending on where you want to pull or contract the accordion.
SPEAKER_01
Dang. You know, if we weren’t like talking in person, which we effectively are, but online, like my brain is so random. So I’m gonna see if I can throw you for a loop, just telling you. Um, I know I can’t, but I’ll go see. So I got stuck, honestly. Like you said seven weeks in heaven, and I heard seven minutes in heaven. You remember that from back in I that’s what it’s based on, yeah. That’s what it’s based on. Okay, I was like, there has to be some reason that she chose that name. Yeah, wow. Now I’m thinking to the eighth-grade girl that rejected me. Um, anyway, also looking on this page, I’m like, baby, it don’t mean a thing if she ain’t got
The Mural Proposal Side Quest
SPEAKER_01
that ring. Look at that ring. How did your husband propose to you?
SPEAKER_00
I don’t even have my big one on. Um, this was actually uh I don’t remember, I don’t know if you, I don’t know if we were friends yet. Sorry, I’m trying to think back, but it was like this whole moment on the internet because there’s this wall in downtown. Um, yeah, so it was prior to the coffee shop, so we didn’t know each other yet. There’s um where our coffee shop is is within the arts district. So there’s murals everywhere. And he had commission, purchased one of the walls essentially for a temporary amount of time, and commissioned an artist to then paint a giant mural. That then was the proposal. And because we’re part of the downtown scene and the culture, it was um natural for him to say, like, let’s go take a walk and we’ll do some photos and this, that, and the other so smart because then I had hair and makeup on, hired a photographer, videographer, had this wall. We come around this corner and then nice big wall was revealed. So it was um, it actually made its way onto the news at the time. And I was like, get yourself a man who gets your proposal on the news.
SPEAKER_01
Seriously, right? No pressure, no pressure at all. So, did you notice right away that the wall was all about you? Or were you in the moment of the photo shoot and it took you a bit? And he had to like hint, and you’re like no, I saw my name.
SPEAKER_00
It was it’s a massive wall, so I just saw my name as I I rounded this corner. And the photos are what is the painting? The starry night with the big, like, oh shocked face.
SPEAKER_01
Oh, uh, is that is that are you talking about like the is it Van Gogh, the scream where it’s on the bridge in the shock face? I don’t I don’t know if it’s starry night or the scream, one of those.
SPEAKER_00
Yes, if everybody can conjure that in their mind, that was my face as I rounded this corner, and me looking like that scream face is what then circulated the Las Vegas streets. I was like, oh gosh, not my most attractive moment, but it was so, so, so sweet.
SPEAKER_01
I think you’re right. It is called the Starry Night. A quick Google search has revealed um that it’s a starry night. This is great. This is a great story. So were you you were a bit lost for words at that moment.
SPEAKER_00
Yes, absolutely. But I guess you did have two words in mind, which were yes, I didn’t say I did later.
SPEAKER_01
I guess I’m thinking I do, but I guess the idea is for later, right?
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the way that it was written on the wall was like a note. Speaking of eighth grade, it was like a will you be my girlfriend looking note, but it was obviously a will you be my wife, and it had a yes and a no with a checkbox, and then there was a little side of paint, so I was able to then paint in my yes check too.
SPEAKER_01
What is this? Is like the ultimate Instagrammable proposal.
SPEAKER_00
It was very, very cute, yes.
SPEAKER_01
That wow, and with the note that’s bringing up other traumas when I didn’t know what I was doing, and said a girl a note in the middle school, and you know what that note didn’t say, it didn’t say tell everybody else that I asked you to be my girlfriend and why you didn’t like me. Yet somehow that’s what she interpreted. Oh, I’m still traumatized, not as triggering you on the pod. Yeah, no, not it’s okay, but I got funny stories. I did get her back, it was later on in college in China of all places, and that will be another story. So back to this launch strategy, it’s also good.
Budget ROAS Creatives And Targeting
SPEAKER_01
How much are you spending on ads?
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it is usually. I have my um most recent launch over here, and I think it was about 13, 11. Yeah, so typically between 11 and 15, but I would say almost every launch I land around the $13,000 mark.
SPEAKER_01
Okay, that’s a respectable amount. And what does your return on ad spend look like? Like reliably, how much do you want to get back from those ads?
SPEAKER_00
So typically I’ll see between five and eight converted clients, typically on the VIP tier through paid ads and the VIP tier um with payment plan. Let me actually crunch that number 1375 times six times.
SPEAKER_01
She is crunching, dear listener. The reason I ask this is because I’m curious, but also it’s super important. Like, we don’t want to turn on ads on a hope and a prayer. Like, I do believe in hope and I do believe in praying, but you have got to know two important numbers. Um, and if you heard upper other episodes, you know what I’m gonna say. But this would be your earnings per lead, like how much you’re making per person that registered for your launch, so that you can look at your earnings per lead way up here and your cost per lead way down here, since you’re running paid ads, and the profit would be the gap between those two. And you want to be as big as possible, and that’s why I asked her that question. So love it.
SPEAKER_00
So, based off of just conversion data, it is about $66,000 in revenue made for the $13,000 of ads. So let me minus that out. It’s a $53,000 profit on conversion, however, or and um the beauty of the paid ads in this launch style is that all of those folks that came in that did not purchase this time because it was a new concept, they were new to me, they’re now in my ecosystem for nurture. And then I see them pop the next launch. So and I need I spend so much less on them because at that point they’re organic, we’re community, we know each other. I’m talking them through the investment. Um, and of course, those aren’t the only purchases, but the ones that I can attribute back to paid ads, if that was to be all that it was, that let’s say 50k to give it round, 50k in profit is well worth it to me, let alone the ripple effect from there.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, who wouldn’t want that? Put in 13, get out 50. I’m I’m down for it. Let’s go all day long. So I’m also really curious then when you are running ads, like on average, how many different like kind of creatives, visuals are you putting out there? And and what are you seeing that works really well for you? Mostly video, mostly graphics, carousels, like what does that look like?
SPEAKER_00
Um, mostly video, especially if we’re targeting warm in some capacity, even if they’ve just hit the page or watched something one time, um, because that familiarity is going to be there. And with the graphics, what’s um interesting, and I’m sure you’ve been hearing or seeing this yourself too, but you let me know, is that the more rudimentary, the easier it is for somebody to read it, understand it, and then want it. And so the branded, beautiful graphics and carousels just aren’t converting in the way that they used to. Um, so typically it’s something pretty clean, pretty simple. And if it has me on it, it’ll work better just for that familiarity effect as well. So simple graphics and then face-to-cam style videos work great for consistency. I would say if I can nail a really funny, relatable skit, then that will, you know, knock it all out of the park because of the entertainment factor. But finding one that then relates to people who don’t know you that well and then perfectly tease up the conversion and all of that, that’s it’s kind of a center of event diagram effect. So those are a little further and fewer between.
SPEAKER_01
Tell me about targeting. I mean, how big is your email list?
SPEAKER_00
Email is around 20. We’ll go down and up depending on clean outs out every four months, but around there.
unknown
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
Targeting, yeah. Do you mean like what we’re plopping in there?
SPEAKER_01
Well, I guess my um not the nitty-gritty of how you’re doing the detailed targeting or what audiences you’re targeting. I was mainly looking at it high level. You have a very large email list and you have a very large social media following. So I was really wondering when you’re launching, are you pulling many people from cold audiences, or do you generally just go for during that launch registration period, if you will, the M2 registration period, uh, warm audiences?
SPEAKER_00
It is almost exclusively warm from M2 and beyond, because at that point you have to, based off this strategy, already be bought into the signature offer solution. And might you come to that class and think, whoa, this opened up some loops in my mind? I’m gonna stay in this person’s ecosystem and maybe purchase next time for sure. But I would much rather spend my cold money on them coming to M1, us going on this journey together over multiple weeks of really revealing the solution and then coming to a class from there. So in M1, we will target colder, but I would say at that point it’s like 40 cold, 60 warm. And then of that pool, we’re then bringing everybody for the rest of the journey from there.
SPEAKER_01
Okay. All right. When
What She’d Do Differently Now
SPEAKER_01
you could go back to uh, or if you could, time travel back to let’s say 2019. Was that after your second launch? Yes. Yeah. What are you what are you telling past Shannon back then?
SPEAKER_00
Well, interestingly, I I think everybody could kind of hear also in the um the strategy back then was so community driven and there was so much warmth, and it was, it was smaller. And so I was able to put my hands on more people more intimately. And because of that, part of my strategy was then sitting there in the DMs, in the emails, custom insights to be able to say why I think this is the right solution for them. And they were smaller launches with fewer purchasers, but they took so much more time because I didn’t have reinforcements with the ads having my back, with my emails, with my scheduled social. I was manually talking to my community members. And while that’s a beautiful way to start because it’s built off of your real people and you that that feedback loop is one of the best pieces of messaging data you will ever have in a launch, rapid fire, somebody seeing your um asset and then telling you what their issue is is such a great era of creating great content going forward. So I’m grateful for all of that. But I mean, when I launched over Black Friday, I was sitting there on Thanksgiving, everybody’s enjoying watching TV after we had the meal, and I am actively DMing. So going back to past Shannon and saying, good job, because you put in a lot of time-consuming muscle to make those sales, but the volume that we’ll get to play with in the future by investing in assets that are reinforcements of our message versus being exclusively responsible for that conversation is going to be so worth its weight. Um, and it’s gonna be, even though it feels counterintuitive that it’s a little less intimate because it’s an asset versus a person having a conversation, the ability to make sure that you’re having the right message and it’s hitting the right person. It doesn’t matter if you’re the one typing it or if Meta is the one sending it, that is going to have your back for conversion.
SPEAKER_01
Okay. All right. If I could go back to 2019, I would just tell Passquajo to buy a lot of NVIDIA in Apple stock.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01
Right? You know, um, maybe some Bitcoin. Another random story is uh I was creating an app in China back in 2011, and I knew a gentleman that was creating another Chinese app. And this guy tried to get me to invest in Bitcoin and Ethereum at that point. And I was like, no, look, I don’t know what you’re dabbling in, but like I’m sticking to me, I’m like, I’m very conservative when it comes to investments like index funds with Vanguard, and that’s it, you know. And now I’m looking at myself like, dang it, why don’t you just like take some of the play money that you had and listen to the guy? Um, because I checked in on him and he’s doing quite well. He didn’t actually sell off much of his Bitcoin investment and he bought lots of it back then. And uh yeah, so that’s why I would tell my past self.
SPEAKER_00
I know, yeah, that’s a great call out. I too am very conservative with things like that. And yeah, it the it’s so interesting as entrepreneurs, we have such a risk-filled career, but that risk level for me when it comes to investments, I’m like, oh gosh, if I can’t touch it, if I can’t see it, I I can’t part with it.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I will because we we accept risk, we accept the entrepreneurial roller coaster in our day-to-day lives. And so, like, you know, long term though, I don’t want the risk. And me personally, like, I think in my mind all the time, what if Facebook and Instagram ads for me as an operator um and agency owner goes away? What would I do? You know, like how can I set this up to make sure like everyone’s provided for? So very cool. Shannon,
Trust Building And Final Takeaways
SPEAKER_01
I wish we could talk about more business strategy, but I thank you for sharing high-level how you’re using Facebook and Instagram ads between launches and this whole concept of the two milestones as you prepare to launch and how really it’s just helping you sell more because selling is serving. Like that, this has been a really good episode.
SPEAKER_00
Thanks. Yeah, I I think that with so much chatter online, your opportunity to show your worldview, like the lens that’s on your camera, if they if it’s you against 10 other people who do exactly what you do, including AI, and your consumer is trying to de-risk this investment and choose you. The thing that’s going to help is them seeing how you think and how your lifestyle is by proxy of implementing these assets. So there’s a personal brand component, there’s a mission component, there’s a this is the way my brain works and the way that I approach this component. And I’m going to choose you, even if everybody does something very similar, because I want your camera lens on mine as well. And your ability to expose that through the milestone effect gives you just a little, you’re going to have a freebie anyways, you’re going to have a class anyways, you’re going to be doing ads anyways. By stacking them up in this sort of double dip and purpose-driven way, you’re able to take people on this journey of indoctrination for good to where they walk out of it saying, I was given the opportunity to know that I can trust this person, this process, and myself. I feel capable again and I want to be able to partner in this way to get this solution. And this feels right. So I’m always very pro. I know that sales cycles are getting even longer in the online space due to people resting on their laurels since they have other options. If the time is going, if let’s take just seven weeks for that purchase, if the time is going to pass, anyways, I would rather you take your person on a journey that is as efficient and deep as possible during that time so that they’re making their most informed investment.
SPEAKER_01
A journey of indoctrination for good. Never heard that before, and I like it. Thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01
Yep, right on. Dear listener, it’s been an episode. I told you you would have to scrub back and listen to it over and over again. Um do the listening, but more importantly, do the work, apply it to your launch and the in between parts of your launch and watch additional success happen. Until the next time you hear from me or see me. Take care, be blessed, and uh I’ll see you in the next one. Bye.
