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Rob Marsh from The Copywriter Club is a direct response copywriter who specializes in email and sales pages. Today, we talk about building a leading community for copywriters.
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Rob shares his journey from direct mail to dominating the copywriting scene for tech and health supplement companies. He opens up about the unique challenges and transitions in his business, including evolving from a partnership and how it impacts the services offered.
Learn how authenticity and unique elements, like his signature Chuck Taylors, make him stand out in the crowded world of copywriting.
Watch the next episode on YouTube, “Why not all “bro” marketing tactics are bad and what that means for your business, featuring Rob Marsh” (releases Feb 26th)
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Speaker 1:
Welcome back to another episode of the Art of Online Business podcast. In this episode and the next one, we’ll be covering many things that have to do with the art of copywriting, and if you have already subscribed and are watching the YouTube channel, then you can see what, hopefully, is a familiar face. If he’s not familiar to you, you should get familiar. This is Rob Marsh and he is the well, he’s a direct response copywriter who specializes in email and sales pages.
Speaker 1:
He’s written everything from direct mail to TV, to case studies and a book. He’s worked for clients like American Express, pluralsight, and today he writes primarily for tech SaaS companies software as a service, if you will, and health supplement clients, and in his free time you might catch him running playing pickleball. Ouch, you know, I tore tendons a year and a half ago. Let’s not talk about that. Yeah, let’s not go there. You said hanging out with family, rob. Okay, you’re a family man. I like that, and this part caught me trying very hard not to have a second donut. Rob, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:
Hi Joe, thank you, I am honored to be here.
Speaker 1:
Thank you. I am honored to be here. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I must say I know that in a moment we’ll jump in and talk about like a snapshot of where your business is at right now and we’ll go back in time to you know the journeys that you’ve had.
Speaker 1:
I’m thinking of that song the mountains are high, the valleys are low. I’m sure it’s been a journey, but I always notice that I’m intrigued when I read copywriters writing and it’s like there’s always a little something in there that just tickles my brain. And when I read your bio the first time before you hopped on into the studio it was the and trying very hard not to have a second donut. And I wonder, like can you explain just to me what is that thing that copywriters do that just sparks a little bit of intrigue or tickles someone’s?
Speaker 2:
fancy. I mean, that’s exactly it, right, you’re trying to break the pattern of normalcy and so with a typical bio, of course you’re going to read all of the clients that they’ve worked with or the experience that you have, right. But you want to do something that’s just a little bit different, and so those kinds of those kinds of things maybe I might reference. In fact, a lot of people reference the fact that I drink way too much Coke Zero and I tend to wear Chuck Taylors. So you know, these various things that are maybe a little bit unique to me or maybe not unique, but are different, and when I talk about them I’m different from other copywriters. That’s how we do it. So it breaks the pattern, makes you take notice and hopefully remember me as a copywriter that you want to talk to, and I guess we can use that for our clients. If we do that for our clients, then their customers remember them and want to work for them, and that makes us better marketers, right?
Speaker 1:
I did notice the Chuck Taylors on your website, thecopywriterclubcom, becauseI do also have not Chuck Taylors, but definitely plenty pairs of Converse, including a customized pair. Did you know you can customize them on the?
Speaker 2:
website. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I’ve got a funny story about Chuck Taylors. My daughter, maybe 10 years ago she’s about eight or nine years old and I noticed that she was cleaning our bathrooms and I mean, eight-year-olds don’t naturally clean the bathroom, right. So I asked my wife what’s going on with this and she’s like, well, you can’t let her know that I told you this, but she is working to save up some money because she wants to buy you a birthday present, and her birthday present was a pair of Chuck Taylors. She wanted to get me pink ones because she thought that it would be hilarious if I had to wear these pink shoes around. They were out of pink ones, and so she bought me these white ones that have these really cool red and blue laces. And so for her I basically said these shoes are too special to just wear around, so I only wear those shoes when I’m on stage presenting.
Speaker 2:
And I always wear them when I’m on stage presenting, which again is another way to sort of stand out, but they’re, yeah, they’re kind of unique and fun. So anyway, I, yeah, I have a thing for for Chuck Taylors.
Speaker 1:
That is so cool. I tried to get my daughter into a pair of believe it or not pink ones, because that seems to be the only color she will wear other than black boots.
Speaker 1:
But she just wouldn’t go for it and I was like, yeah, you can get a pair and I can get a pair, because pink would match my uniform, which is always blue shirt and either blue jeans or I actually just bought two pair my first ever pair of green jeans, like one’s moss and what’s one’s like a lighter shade of sage. It’s called Okay, pretty stoked about that, but she wouldn’t, she wouldn’t, she wouldn’t do the shoes with me, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean, I feel your pain. My kids don’t do what I tell them to do either. How old are yours? You said when she was eight yeah, so she’s my youngest. She’s now 19. So my kids range between 28 and 19.
Speaker 1:
Tell me it gets easier. Mine are eight and six.
Speaker 2:
Some things get easier, some things are not easier. But I will tell you, it gets funner, it gets more and more fun, and I mean you already see this going from young toddlers to these preteens, teenagers like it just gets more and more fun, Even as hanging out with my adult kids, it’s just a blast. We’re always laughing, having a great time.
Speaker 1:
That’s good. Speaks to parenting. Done right when you’re having a blast.
Speaker 2:
I hope so, or maybe they just came, we just got lucky, they just came this way.
Speaker 1:
It does feel like that sometimes I sit, not sit lay like many times now, my kids, having exited the toddler stage, like my wife and I, spend a good amount of time looking back at when they were babies. It’s like through that period we were waiting for it to get better and easier, but now we’re just like, oh, we miss them. Exactly. This is a harsh transition, or my attempt at a segue into wanting to know what are the valleys and the peaks, if you will, the successes that you’ve had and challenges along the way that you look back fondly on as you were building your business. But before you do that, can you just share with a listener a snapshot of your business as it is today, in the beginning of 2025?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so my business is in a period of transition. We launched eight years ago and at the time, my partner Kirahug and I worked hard to build this business and provide training and a membership and events, all for the copywriting community and we did it in a way that was meant to be really inclusive.
Speaker 2:
There’s some things you know in the marketing world where you know it tends to be very dominated by direct response writers, who are, you know, the bro marketing tactics, you know that are so famous out there, and it sometimes is an uncomfortable place for people of color or women or even men.
Speaker 2:
And so we just thought we’re going to build a business that’s about copywriting and everyone’s welcome newbies, experts, everybody and it’s not about anything else other than just everyone getting better as marketers. And we did that for seven years together, and then last year, my partner, kira, decided that she wanted to do something else, and so we are sort of going through that process of transitioning all of the offers that we did together and figuring out okay, what can the Copywriter Club offer for people when it’s just me, or me and some future partner? You know, who knows what will happen in the future? And so, yeah, working through, what programs work, how should we price them? You know, are we still serving the same audience? If so, how do we serve them? Well, all of those questions that we’re really starting to work through.
Speaker 1:
Wow, those do not sound like simple questions to resolve. Yeah, they’re not.
Speaker 2:
I mean, you know from just working out how do you recreate something that two people you know created together and one of those people is no longer. You know part of it and you know where. She played such a huge role in a lot of the coaching and the charisma that she brought to our podcast and all of that stuff. And trying to recreate that in her absence is not easy at all. And on the flip side, there’s still a huge need in the copywriting and content writing world for people who are able to teach business skills, not just how do you write the best headline.
Speaker 1:
I had two ladies on my podcast recently. They are a team, two sisters running a website design agency, if you will, and I just remarked at how they managed to pull a business together and keep it successful for so many years as partners, and you’ve done the same for eight years. Years as partners, and you’ve done the same for eight years. Can you speak, just you know? Word of advice, encouragement to somebody who’s listening right now, who has a partner in business but they’re earlier on in their journey.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and I’ve got a lot of feelings around partners. In fact, kira and I used to talk about this a lot when we were, you know, both together. I would say that having a partner allows you to go twice as far, just as fast, right, because you can do twice as many things. The flip side of that, of course, is, you know, there are twice as many mouths to feed, you know, and twice as many demands on the business from two people. So when you’re looking for a partner, you need to find people who fill in the gaps just a little bit.
Speaker 2:
If you are really good at ideas but you’re terrible at finishing, I’d recommend finding a partner who’s really good at finishing and maybe needs or is open to allowing somebody else to come up with the ideas you want to fit together really well, because if you both bring the exact same things to the table, you’re going to find that the business won’t move twice as fast like you hope that it will. And the other thing that I would just say is that the way two partners work together matters, you know, and so both Kira and I, you know, I think complimented each other a lot in, you know, sometimes she could be a little bit more charismatic than me and maybe I’m the straight guy you know in the background, and then at other times she wanted to take the backseat and I could step forward, right. So looking for a partner that compliments what you do instead of duplicates what you do would be my number one recommendation.
Speaker 1:
All right. All right, so these are in transition, but I see on your website accelerator, fast track, small group coaching, the copywriter think tank, the copywriter underground, Correct? You want to give us a rundown of what those are and like just rough percentage of like which one makes them up the most of your revenue?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so, and, like you said, this is in transition. So the think tank has historically been our mastermind and because you know we were running that together, we have temporarily closed the think tank, so there’s a waiting list for that. We may reopen that at some point in the future and offer that really in-depth one-on-one coaching and events, that kind of thing. And when that was open and when we reopen it, that was $1,000 a month, $10,000 a year. So that’s a rough point.
Speaker 2:
And we usually the numbers in there fluctuated a little bit, but we usually had anywhere from 18 to 30 people at a time. Then we also have the accelerator and what the version that we have right now is accelerator fast track and that’s on our website still, but I am in the process of completely revamping that program. So this is kind of really the next big thing that we’ll be offering to our audience again is a renewed, recreated version of that. It is a program for primarily for copywriters content writers but rather than teaching writing skills, we take the approach that you are already probably a pretty good writer and so we teach the business skills that help copywriters succeed. So things like how do you figure out what your x factor is, the thing that makes you different from literally a million other copywriters in the world, so that you can charge what you deserve to charge and you can work with the clients that you want to work with?
Speaker 2:
So you know a lot around positioning. How do you create services and products that meet the needs of your niche or the people you want to work with? So you know a lot around positioning. How do you create services and products that meet the needs of your niche or the people you want to serve. How do you work with clients, all of those kinds of questions that come up branding, pricing so we go through eight modules that go through that. Like I said, I am working on our new revamp of that and we’ll be launching that here in the spring. And then really the main piece of our business right now is the Copywriter Underground. That’s our membership. It’s, I think, super low priced for the amount of training and coaching and various templates and things that you get inside that $87 a month and the membership in there has fluctuated anywhere from, say, about 50 members to 300 plus and we’re working on building that up substantially in the coming year.
Speaker 1:
I had a copywriter when I first started my business and actually worked with her. She was a decent writer, but I had a system for writing ads and I had referred her to the Copywriter Club, to that membership, specifically because I remember, even way back in the day when I first started running ads, coming across your ads and they were so intriguing to me. Yes, because they were well-written, but also because the visuals that you had then, which are different from the dinosaur sipping coffee and playing around on your sales page Now you had.
Speaker 1:
It was you and Kira underwater yeah, a telephone. You were like phoning people and I don’t know, swimming underwater like at a Disney, like at a SeaWorld performance.
Speaker 2:
Yeah they were. They were different. We did that on purpose. We wanted to stand out, Right? So you see, all of these programs that are out there and when they pop up on Instagram or Facebook or whatever you know the images is that’s the first thing that catches your attention. And we wanted something that was a little bit different. So we had a photo shoot in a swimming pool. We did it in in Charlotte. It was really cold that day and yeah, we just it was. It was a lot of fun and we’ve used those photos In fact, I still use those photos just because they’re just different enough. You’re like wait a second, is he underwater or what’s going on here? And then hopefully, you’re going to read the ad and possibly at least sign up for the free thing or the webinar or, hopefully, one of our programs.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, those are great. It’s like what are these fully clothed people doing underwater? What’s what’s going on here? Like, yeah, it goes right back to that very first idea.
Speaker 2:
We talked about the pattern interrupt right, Like you want to do something just a little bit different so that you stand out.
Speaker 1:
I’m going to have to remember that and I’m going to need to show my son your sales page, because he is, at the ripe old age of six, in love with the dinosaurs there you, there you go.
Speaker 2:
Well, that’s going to be part of our transition. I have a feeling those images will disappear soon, but yeah, well, they’ll be there for another few weeks anyway.
Speaker 1:
Well, I will, just after we finish recording, I’ll just download them there you go.
Speaker 1:
So, reminiscing back to an earlier time in your business, tell me something funny. I’ll lead with speaking of my son and dinosaurs. He watches this show called Peppa Pig, which is not about dinosaurs, but it is a cartoon coming out of the UK and everybody sounds British. Of course we don’t watch it in English. It’s in Chinese Mandarin in our house because, you know, having been in China for 12 years and then exited during the pandemic and got stuck in Mexico, that’s kind of one of the ways that I help keep his Mandarin alive. Then we’re vacationing in Cancun, mexico, and we hear a couple, specifically the wife and the son, speaking. The son’s name is George and it sounds like they’re straight out of Peppa Pig, but like the real UK version, and me and my son had a moment giggling when I was like it’s Peppa Pig and he’s like it sounds just like them. It was a cute moment. So when you were starting your business, what’s a funny moment that makes you feel warm that you remember? What’s a funny moment that makes you feel warm that you remember?
Speaker 2:
That is a really good question. I’m not sure. I’m not going to go all the way back to the start of our business. I’m not sure this is funny, but it’s intriguing. It’s interesting, I’ll give you this.
Speaker 2:
So March 2020, you all know what was happening back then we had our live event scheduled in San Diego. We were at an old YMCA building so you know, the event was actually in the swimming pool of, I mean, it’s kind of a really cool space or whatever. But you’ll remember like everything happened to be shutting down that week. In fact, a lot of people were emailing like, where are you guys going to have the event? And we made the decision to go ahead with the event in the face of everything. The hotel was super grateful because everybody else had canceled. You know they still have people to support and a lot of people who came in were also super grateful because we heard over the months after that. You know that was the one thing the fact that I was able to hang out with all these cool copywriters, you know, talk about this thing. That was the thing that got me through the next three months of isolation is that I had forged these bonds and whatever.
Speaker 2:
So that’s, that’s not. I’m not sure that, like I said, this will be funny, but obviously we’re going through this in the face of the pandemic, at the risk that you know people will get sick. It turns out only one person got sick on that trip. Everybody else got home safely. That one person happened to be me. I caught COVID in the airport coming home. I was one of the first few people in the state of Utah who had it and because of that, when I was diagnosed, the CDC Center for Disease Control flew people in from Atlanta to come to my house. I mean, remember this is when we had no idea what was going on with COVID, how dangerous it was, how it was spreading. They came to our house twice to take blood from me, my wife, my two daughters who were living at home at the time and our dog, because they didn’t know even if pets could get it.
Speaker 1:
And then they came back two weeks later.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. So and it turns out I was the only one in my family who got it. I, you know kind of isolated, I wasn’t great at it, but you know, from some miracle my wife didn’t get it, my daughters didn’t get it, everything was okay. But it was one of those things that, yeah, if we had canceled the event I would have, you know, avoided a little bit of that weirdness.
Speaker 2:
But, I think a lot of people really appreciated that we went ahead and had that moment of togetherness before we were all separated. For so long Were they in?
Speaker 1:
like hazmat suits. Is that what you’re talking about?
Speaker 2:
Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, in fact they came to the door. You know they’re standing 20 feet back or whatever. And they come to the door and they’re like do you want us to? You know, suit up in the garage or somewhere so that your neighbors don’t see? I’m like, I’m not worried about my neighbors to come over. So yeah, they were in hazmat suits, full masks, it was.
Speaker 2:
It was nuts I mean, yeah, that’s, but again we had no idea what was going on, like this is literally the first two weeks of the shutdown right, and everybody was freaked out and you know, can we even go to the grocery store? And they were trying to figure out what was going on.
Speaker 1:
So yeah, it was kind of interesting.
Speaker 2:
I remember, yeah, no, I’m completely envisioning outbreak, you know, expecting you to say that, like morgan freeman came up on your, it was just like that it was, it was, it was so funny, and and the fact that they even took, you know, uh, blood from our dog was another thing that just like boggles my mind, but yeah.
Speaker 1:
Wow, wow, okay. So, if we’re not going to go back all the way to the beginning, where do you feel like the most significant point was? Towards the beginning of starting the Copywriter Club, the point that made it the Copywriter Club and let’s call it a defining point where you could have gone another way, maybe back to your profession, started a different kind of business. What was that point?
Speaker 2:
Yeah. So the very beginning of the Copywriter Club happened when I got an email from it might have been Bluehost or someone. It was basically saying hey, they just opened up all of these new domains and if you buy it right now you can get them for like $2 or whatever. And so I thought, well, let me check out and see what’s available with the word copywriter in it. And I was just I’m a copywriter and thinking, oh, I’ll do something with this. And one of the domains was dot club. And that just got me thinking. I was like huh, copywriter club.
Speaker 2:
There were clubs back in the eighties and nineties for copywriters in the ad world where they would get together and give awards and different things, and but they’re mostly faded away today. And that just got me thinking. I thought that’d be an interesting business, or maybe podcast or whatever. And then, because Kira and I had become friends and we were in a mastermind together, I just reached out to her and said you said, do you want to start a podcast and do this thing together? And she said, yeah, I think that’d be great. It probably ought to be more than just a podcast, though. Let’s figure out a way to turn it into a business, so we launched the podcast.
Speaker 1:
January 1st, I’m going to cut you off.
Speaker 2:
Okay, cut me off, go ahead.
Speaker 1:
You reached out to a fellow Mastermind member to start a podcast and then a business. What two businesses were you doing separately in the Mastermind, or what was the mastermind?
Speaker 2:
We were both running our own copywriting businesses.
Speaker 2:
Okay, Working with our clients on the side, because we were in this Mastermind together, we had shared, you know, sales pages with each other, gotten feedback and just had, you know, we’d met a few times and just kind of had that you know a good friendship, and so it just it sort of made sense. And then I was also thinking, just knowing my personality I’m a bit of an introvert, knowing that I’m, you know, gen X, whatever and thinking about who would be attracted to a podcast that’s just about, or that’s just me as a host. I was thinking it’d be better if I had a co-host who brought something like we said when we were talking about partnerships a little bit different. And so Kira’s millennial, obviously female, I live in the West, she lives in the East, and there was just enough differences that it felt to me like we’ll have a broader appeal, and so that’s a big reason why I thought, yeah, she’d be a great co-host, that’s so intriguing.
Speaker 1:
I just can’t. I cannot fathom being in a mastermind and then seeing another meta ad manager and being like let’s team up and co-host a podcast. That is very intriguing to me.
Speaker 2:
Well, and a big part of what we talk about in the Copywriter Club is that all those of the copywriters content writers out there are not your competitors. I mean, yeah, in some ways maybe you both want to work for the same kinds of clients, but in reality we have so much more in common than the fight between us to win a client over the other person, and I’m going to vibe with the clients that vibe with me and you’re going to vibe with the clients that vibe with you. And so we just never really saw a reason not to. And I think, just again because we appealed to two different audiences, or maybe several different audiences. It just broadened the appeal of our show.
Speaker 2:
But the thing that really made the difference, we launched with four episodes on January 1st and at the same time we opened up a Facebook group, and the thing that really made the difference, I think, was that we started to reach out to every single person that we could find with copywriter in their title, and we just send them a message. People we didn’t know. We just say, hey, we just started this group for copywriters, come and check it out, come and hang out with us. And we went from and we didn’t do any advertising to bring people in, it was all direct invites. But we went from zero members to over a thousand members in about four months and we doubled it again two or three months later. And that I mean just that outreach of community building, I think, was the thing that really made the difference.
Speaker 1:
Okay, so Copywriter Club version 1.0 was fueled by you and Kira in the DMs or emails emails, dms, anytime.
Speaker 2:
like if we could find a group of copywriters or a copywriter we would just message them and say, hey, come and join us. What was that message?
Speaker 2:
Literally we just started this podcast. We just have this group come and talk about copywriting with us and come and hang out. And I mean we didn’t. We were not selling anything at this point. We just had this group and you know small payments to keep the podcast going. You know hosting fees or whatever.
Speaker 2:
But we just sort of watched what conversations started happening, naturally between all of the people in the group, and we started to see people with questions about things like how do I price this kind of a project? How do I differentiate myself? Should I niche, should I not niche? And the arguments that go both ways around that here’s a customer problem. How would you deal with this? Or my client gave me this kind of feedback what does that mean? All of these discussions were going on in the group and from that feedback we took that and said our first product is going to be this copywriter accelerator and we’re going to answer all of those business questions that keep coming up over and over and over. And so we launched that. Six months after we launched the podcast, 20 people joined, $1,000 a piece and we were off and running.
Speaker 1:
Sounds like a successful start.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it was, it was great. I mean I was really pleased with how well it went. Now, I mean, you know $20,000 total. You know, in six months most businesses, I think, would look at that as a win. Obviously, we have two partners, so you know we’re splitting that and you know all that. So you know you need to consider all of that stuff when it goes in. We weren’t making millions by any stretch, but, yeah, we have had this constituency of people who need help running a business and I will say, although we aim at copywriters and content writers, the principles that we teach in that program work for anybody who’s freelancing.
Speaker 1:
Gotchacha. Okay, so podcast. Then the think tank. You guys are separating like going separate ways. Now you explain that care is still on behind the scenes in the business. Was there a time where you almost went separate ways previously during the eight years?
Speaker 2:
no no, no, at least I mean I at least from my standpoint, I’ve I never uh up for me Like our partnership has been solid and even though we’re splitting now, we’re still great friends. I admire the heck out of Kira and her writing ability and what she’s doing and you know, last year she we just had that conversation where she’s like, you know, this is just. I’m not getting the same level of joy, it doesn’t light me up the way that it used to and I’m thinking about doing some different things and I 100% support her in that. Obviously, we should do the things that light us up and that bring us joy, and if your business isn’t doing that, there’s something wrong, right. And so when we had that conversation, I’m like there’s no reason I’m going to force anybody into something they don’t love. So it was the right time for her and obviously I would love it, if you know, if that hadn’t changed. But you know, in forcing the transition, who knows, we’ll end up with something that’s different and hopefully sustaining but still lights me up.
Speaker 1:
I mean, I can understand and relate the business the former business that I worked in that owner transitioned, I believe, two times, like eight years is a solid amount of time in the online business world. And, yeah, you know you want to follow passion, either completely different way or a slightly different way. Speaking of which, you have two podcasts and I didn’t know that before, but it looks like you’re also dabbling in AI.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, we’ve had that podcast. I think we’ve done about 22 or 23 episodes. We haven’t done a new AI podcast in quite a while, but we have like there was, especially as AI was coming online. I think there were so many questions about it that we wanted to address those a little bit separately from our normal podcast, and so we had a lot of guests on talking about you know what does it mean? Where is it going, what are some of the tools, especially that writers are using, and we did some interviews around that. But it also felt like, after you know those 20 plus episodes, it was becoming a little bit more mainstream. So, while we talk about AI on the Copywriter Club podcast still, I don’t do very many AI only episodes these days- so, they’re still there.
Speaker 2:
If people want to go and learn, you can check them out. They’re on YouTube AI for Creative Entrepreneurs and they can check that out if they’re interested in that angle.
Speaker 1:
It’s funny that you say it’s becoming a bit more mainstream and still I feel like in our very special circle of online business owners marketers, if you will it seems mainstream to us. But then whenever I slip up and just casually mention AI to any of my family, my in-laws of my family, they’re like what?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, you know, yeah, I have a daughter in college and you know every she comes out at least once a week, you know, and she’s she’s in a history course and I studied history in college. So she’s like, hey, you know, what would you write for this? Like, well, this is what I’d write. Why don’t you just ask for a few ideas from ai? And like, don’t ask ai to write it? But you know, like give them, give them the question and say, you know, give me five topics on this. And she’s like, oh yeah, I should. You know, I should do that. Ai is awesome for generating ideas, really good for generating ideas.
Speaker 2:
I definitely agree Not great for writing copy necessarily, although you can get it there.
Speaker 1:
Why isn’t it great for writing copy? Before we move into the next episode where you’re going to talk about why not all bro marketing tactics are bad and what that means for your business. Why isn’t AI good for writing copy so far?
Speaker 2:
So I think that and I should say with a caveat you can get good copy out of AI, but it takes writing the right prompts, it takes the discussion back and forth with the chat bot.
Speaker 2:
Whatever you’re using, you can get it there. I think a lot of copywriters can write good copy faster than that conversation requires. So there is that caveat. But I would say the reason that it doesn’t do real well is because good copy is different and surprising and intriguing and vulnerable and human. And AI bots are based on everything that was written before, so it can fake some of that stuff a little bit, but it’s not vulnerable, it’s not human and because it’s based on everything that’s existed in the past, it’s not usually original when it’s writing copy. Now, like I said, you can get it there by the back and forth or by having the right prompts to help with that. You can certainly get it to write headlines, hooks, those kinds of things and do a pretty good job of it, but it’s not human and I think the more AI things we see, the more valuable actual humanness it going to be. It’s just going to become.
Speaker 1:
Good, that was a quote that just slipped my mind.
Speaker 2:
You said good copy is I said a whole bunch of things right, yeah, I mean it’s yeah, it’s.
Speaker 2:
It’s creative, it’s vulnerable, it stands out, it’s human. It’s surprising it. You know it’s new All of these things that we, as humans, are really really good at coming up with. It’s surprising. It’s new all of these things that we, as humans, are really really good at coming up with. It’s emotional, and a robot or a chat system can pull elements from that and it predicts what it thinks we need to hear. But it’s not real, and I think we’re going to get really good at telling the difference. I think we already are. Yeah, Well, certainly those of us that see it almost every day are getting much better at it, and I think we’re going to get really good at telling the difference. I think we already are.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, well, certainly those of us that see it almost every day are getting much better at it. Speaking of which, I think we’re going to title the next episode Unlock Bro Marketing Secrets with a rocket emoji at the end.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:
I can’t believe it.
Speaker 2:
Two sentence intro, two sentence outro.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it’s, yeah, oh, wow, oh wow. Well, thank you for being on this first episode like and letting us kind of glimpse just bits and pieces of the journey. But really I felt like I got to glimpse a bit in piece like pieces of, and learn about you and some of the challenges of your business. And just the time right now as you’re transitioning to a copywriter club, that is, a copywriter club with Rob.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I thank you. It seriously is an honor to be on your show. I like what you do, what you and your wife both do on the show. It’s fun. I always learn something, so it’s just it’s my privilege to be here, so thank you.
Speaker 1:
Thank you. I forgot to say to you and listener that my wife is not here because she’s with the kids super far North in Michigan. Because randomly I’m very random but I was like have they ever seen snow? And the answer was our daughter saw snow when she was like two years old. Our daughter saw snow when she was like two years old. So she took them up to her parents on Lake Michigan to see snow and I just saw a picture of it about an hour ago. There’s like five feet of snow and they are having a storm.
Speaker 2:
I think they’re supposed to get a storm this week too, so yeah, really good, great.
Speaker 1:
So they’re going to have the time of their life. We’d come back to Mexico Super thankful for 70 degree weather and blue skies, all right. So we’re going to hop into the next episode, dear listener. That is linked up in the show notes below. We’re going to talk about the good side of bro marketing and how that can benefit your business. This title, this topic, came out of nowhere and I was so delighted when I read that we can talk about this. So, rob, I can’t wait for that. And well, listener, until the next time you hear from me or see me, take care, be blessed. Bye.
