#148: How to Improve Your Conversion Copywriting with Joel Klettke

On today’s episode of the podcast, we’re talking copywriting — specifically how to write better more effective conversion-focused copy on your sales and landing pages, as well as your ads.

And joining me to share his expertise is conversion copywriter, Joel Klettke.

Joel is the founder of Business Casual Copywriting and he’s worked with clients like HubSpot, WP Engine, Safelite and others.

Joel talks a lot about how we really don’t need to overthink things when it comes to writing copy, but to instead simply let our customers talk and know how to listen to (and interpret) what they’re telling us…

A big part of what he uses is something I have done in the past as well – customer interviews. Joel gives us his recommendations on what group of people we should be approaching, and how to do it the right way, as well as how we can use other tools such as chat logs to identify existing gaps in our copy.

As you’ll hear, a lot of people see copy as just words, but in the bigger context, there’s a promise that you’re making and an expectation that your client has.

It’s all about finding the words to turn skeptics into advocates and prospects into paying customers — and that’s what we dive into today.

On the Show Today You’ll Learn:

  • Why Google is a fantastic aggregator of information, but a miserable interpretation of the truth (Joel gives a great example he uses with his clients that proves this)
  • How Joel uses his “Before-During-After” process to guide his copywriting
  • Why following your competitors’ negative reviews will allow you to proactively solve customer issues
  • His favorite questions to ask to get the best insights from your target market
  • What Joel uses to track the feedback he’s receiving, how he compiles it and how he makes this information useful in his copywriting
  • The most common mistakes that he is seeing as he is auditing online ads
  • Joel’s top resources for upping your copywriting game, and more!

Coming up next week, my good friend Jasmine Star is back to share a case study, where we’ll dive into the 3 components of a Facebook Video Ad that is giving her the best results in her business.

Links & Resources Mentioned in this Episode


Follow Joel on Twitter

Joel’s TEDx talk, Is Google Getting In Your Head

Download Joel’s spreadsheet for tracking quotes, key words, etc.







CopyHackers.com (Joanna Wiebe)

Cult of Copy Facebook Group


The Boran Letters

The Copywriter Club Facebook Group

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