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In this episode of Art of Online Business, we are tapping into a classic episode from last year. It’s a conversation that I had with Jacquette Timmons on the topic of pricing, wealth building, and your relationship with money. When it originally aired, it was so well-received that I knew I had to share it again.
Jacquette M. Timmons focuses on the human side of money. She works as a financial behaviorist and is committed to getting you to see that you don’t manage money – you manage your choices around money.
In addition to being an author (“Financial Intimacy: How to Create a Healthy Relationship with Your Money and Your Mate”) and frequent blogger, Jacquette is also the creator of Pricing Made Human®. PMH is designed to help entrepreneurs and small business owners tackle the question, “What should I charge for this?,” from all sides: the financial, the emotional, and the personal, so they can price more confidently, and strategically, and end up with a thriving business and thriving life. She also hosts The Comfort Circle™ – a dinner series where she hosts discussions about money, business, and life over food and wine – and the podcast, “More Than Money.”
When she’s not providing behavioral-based financial coaching, she’s traveling the country for speaking engagements on behalf of Fortune 100 companies, AM Law 200 firms, nationally known non-profits, and conferences (large & boutique) to talk about the intersection of emotions and money. Her work has been featured on Minnesota Public Radio, SiriusXM, “Good Morning America,” Oprah.com, CNN, HLN, FOX, Black Enterprise, NPR, Reuters.com, and the Wall Street Journal.
Jacquette holds an MBA in finance from Fordham University’s Graduate School of Business and an undergrad in marketing from the Fashion Institute of Technology. A combination she credits, in part, for being able to blend her analytical mind and creative spirit in service to help her clients shift how they look at money; how they perceive its role in their life; and how they give it direction. She lives in Brooklyn, NY, and can be seen running in Prospect Park most days of the week.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Identity-based views of wealth
- Tips for pricing in your business
- Things to think about when planning your revenue
- Planning for the future
- How to get started with wealth building
- How to learn more about stock market investing
- How to change your money mindset
- Expanding your view of what’s possible
- Getting outside the box with your revenue streams
Links & Resources:
- The Art of Online Business website
- DM me on Instagram
- Visit my YouTube channel
- The Art of Online Business clips on YouTube
- Full episodes of The Art of Online Business Podcast on YouTube
- The Art of Online Business Podcast website
- Check out my Accelerator coaching program
*Disclosure: I only recommend products I use and love and all opinions expressed here are my own. This post may contain affiliate links that at no additional cost to you, I may earn a small commission.
Jacquette Timmons’ Links:
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One of the best business decisions that you can make is to ensure that that business prioritizes the health of your personal finances. So if we think about it from that standpoint, how is that million dollars helping you achieve whatever the personal financial vision that you have for your life is? And I think that’s where it first needs to start. So what’s the purpose of that million dollars? And again, if it’s vanity, be clear about it. But understand that you’ve got to make different choices and tradeoffs when you are building 100,000
business versus when you’re building or are on track for building $1,000,000 business.
What is up, my friend? Welcome to today’s episode of The Art of Online Business podcast. Rick I’m already here and today I want to tap into a classic episode. I want to share a best of episode here with you today, all about pricing, wealth building and your relationship with money. And my guest on this interview here is Jacob Timmons, and Jacquet is a financial behaviorist. She’s a sought after speaker. She’s a program creator of a program called Pricing Made Human. And she’s also an author of the book Financial Intimacy How to Create a Healthy Relationship With Your Money and Your Mate. This episode was so well received. I first aired this back in November of 2021, and I figured here we are at the end of the year and also heading into a new year. What better time to revisit the topic of pricing, building wealth and your relationship with money as an entrepreneur? So without further ado, let’s go listen to this classic episode with Jacquet, Timmons Jacquet. We are going to be talking about a very loaded subject today, everybody’s favorite subject that no one wants to talk about, but yet everybody wants to know about it. We’re going to be talking money today. Yes, right. We’re going to be diving into it from a little bit of a different angle, because in previous conversations that we’ve had, we want to kind of dive into it from the level or from the perspective of pricing in our businesses and how we price things reflects our relationship with money. Yes, and I’m fascinated by that. And so we’re going to talk about that. We’re going to talk about retirement planning. We’re going to talk about all things money from an entrepreneurial standpoint. And I’m so excited to dive into this with you. So why don’t you why don’t we start by having you introduce yourself, who you are, what you do, and kind of how you got to where you are today?
My pleasure. Thank you for having me. So for your listening audience, I’m Jacob Timmons. I work as a financial behaviorist and I focus on the human side of money. And I got to that emphasis, if you will, starting with seeing the crash of 1987 and seeing that up close and personal. My very first job out of undergrad and really recognizing that there were some people who, because of how much the market lost on that day and how much they lost for themselves and for their clients, if they could have, they literally would have jumped out of a window. And then there were other people who were really calm. So that is the first see the the fascination with wondering why are people reacting very differently to the same event? And then that was amplified by my time working in the private bank, managing money for high net worth individuals and realizing that although they have several zeros and commas behind those more than my family did, that at the end of the day, they had the same questions, the same challenges, frustrations and desires. They just had more income and assets to work with addressing those things. And so when I started my business in 95, initially as an investment manager, it was to do the exact same thing that I had been doing there. But over the last 20 years I’ve been focusing on coaching and working as a for hire speaker, really looking to take behavioral economics and behavioral finance out of academia and get it at people’s dining room tables and make it much more accessible and help people to understand that success with money is not just a mathematical problem that you can easily solve. Because if it were, we’d be here having a whole a totally different conversation. But it is much more emotional and, you know, identity based and choice based and behavioral based. And those are all of the things that I am fascinated with exploring when I’m working with people or having awesome conversations like the one we’re going to have.
Well, this fascinates me. I mean, the financial side of building wealth and how we think about money and all that sort of thing fascinates me. But when it comes to you just said emotional and identity based thing. So two different things. So I really want I want to start with the identity based our viewpoint around money talk, talk about that. Like what is what exactly does that mean from an identity based standpoint?
Sure. I think, you know, so much of money is a reflection of how we see ourselves, how we want other people to see us, and indeed how other people do see us. And so that would be the identity piece, right? Do we have as much as we want to have or as much as we see someone else has? Do we have as much as we think we deserve? How much of our experience with money is driven by? Quote unquote, how we look or where we went to school or the communities in which we live. All of that is identity. Where did you go to school? What’s the kind of work that you do? All of that is really identity influencing, if you will. And often a lot of that is tied to money. And I think in some instances it’s why people get a lot of satisfaction of wearing designer things because that says that, oh, you fit into a particular category. So I think not. I think that’s what I mean when I say identity. And so much of money is really an intersection of behavior, identity and emotions.
On the other side, on the emotional side. Because like what I think about in what you’re saying here. So everybody listening right now, we’re entrepreneurs. We have an online business. So what I’m hearing you say is, is our identity how we identify ourselves and the emotional side and all that is that sort of dictating. How financially successful the business is or not.
So what I want to be careful of is that I don’t think it’s necessarily dictating how financially successful the business is, but what it is dictating are the choices that you make around your business model, about your sales process, about how you approach pricing, about who is your audience for the product or service that you offer about your positioning. Do you want to be at the premium end of the level or at the budget end of the level or spectrum, I should say, or somewhere in between? And it’s not that one end or in the middle is better than the other, but you need to be really clear about where you want to be, because that’s going to affect, again, your positioning and your pricing. And that’s also where identity comes in.
Okay. So let’s just say that there’s an online coach and maybe they have an online course, but their primary, they’re doing like a coaching program or something like that that are $100,000 and they want to scale to the number that everyone wants to get to because they hear that I’ve made it right. I’ve talked a lot about that here on the show. They want to get to seven figures. They want to get to $1,000,000 in revenue in their business. Mm hmm. What is it going to take on? Like how they’re thinking about it? You know, they’re on the emotional side, the identity side, the behavioral side. What is it going to take for them to I know that this is a much bigger question, but like in a nutshell, are there things that they can be doing from this side of the spectrum here in order to make it easier to get there?
Yes, there are. But I think that the first thing that they have to really kind of unpack is what’s the purpose of that million dollars? Yes.
Thank you for saying that. Yeah.
And if it’s if it’s a vanity metric, fine. But be clear about that. It is a vanity metric. And then if it isn’t, what is the purpose of that? And I think one of the things that I’m always trying to use every opportunity that I have to communicate to folks is that I believe one of the best business decisions that you can make is to ensure that that business prioritizes the health of your personal finances. So if we
think about it from that standpoint, how is that million dollars helping you achieve whatever the personal financial vision that you have for your life is? And I think that’s where it first needs to start. So what’s the purpose of that million dollars? And again, if it’s vanity, be clear about it. But understand that you’ve got to make different choices and tradeoffs when you are building 100,000 business versus when you’re building or are on track for building $1,000,000 business. And clearly the intervals in between. So is it possible? Absolutely. But recognize that your choices and the tradeoffs are going to be very, very different.
Okay. I want to go down this. So I want to we’re going to talk about this later. But I think this is a great time because you just brought it up here. We’re going to definitely come back to the pricing part. But, you know, when you say our business decisions should be being informed by our personal financial like, what do we want in our personal side?
Mm hmm.
Talk more about that, because now we’re I know that we’re going to get into, like, building long term wealth, retirement, all that stuff. Yeah. So where do we where do we even start with that conversation?
So one of the things I always ask people to do is I frame it in the form of an exercise, and it’s called the financial Wheel, and it walks people through the four major things that anybody can do with their money, regardless of where they are on the income or wealth spectrums, Right? It’s earned their money, save it, invest it and spend it. So, you know, ask yourself questions and I’ll just quickly go through them. Like, for example, on the save, how much do you want to save in the next 30 days? How much do you want to save in the next year when you are the age of the oldest person that you know, How much do you want to be able to say you have saved or the highest amount you ever saved in any given year or the average of your best three years, five years. So that takes care of saving. When it comes to investing, that’s about building wealth. And I’ll know we’ll go into it in a little bit more detail. But really from a financial wealth standpoint, there are three pathways to building wealth. You own a business, you invest in the stock market and you have income producing real estate. What are the pathways that you want to pursue? So clearly if you’re listening, you already own a business. So that’s one pathway.
But are you going to do all three? Are you going to do two? And if whatever your combination is, what’s the valuation like? What’s the valuation of your business that will make you say, yes, I am wealthy? What’s the valuation that you. Want to see when you look at your investment statement that will make you say, yes, I’m wealthy. And similarly for your real estate portfolio, how do you want to give money? That’s social wealth, whether it be to family and friends or to organizations, causes, etc., that are important to you? Time, wealth. How do you want to spend your time? If money were not an issue, what would be different about how you spent your time? And if we think about financial wealth and social wealth and time, wealth is being future oriented. Physical wealth is about what are you doing to make sure that you’re taking care of yourself so that you can build up that financial wealth, social wealth and time wealth. And then I have another bucket when it comes to investing, and that’s just your overall well-being in terms of physical and mental and emotional and spiritual, if that’s relevant to you. And then we get to lifestyle, right? What are the lifestyle upgrades that you want to have? Would you live in the same city, state country? Would you live in the same house or apartment that you currently live? Like What about your life would be different that you haven’t already addressed and invest? And what that then does is it opens you up to exploring.
Well, if these are all of the things that I want money to do for me, what do I need to earn to make that happen? What’s the revenue that I need my business to generate? And of that, what am I paying myself? And what often happens is when people do this exercise, if they actually lean into having their answers, be based on anything other than their reality or what they have planned, there is a gap. And the question becomes, if you change nothing about your business model, your sales process or pricing, could you close that gap? And for most people, the answer is no. And for those very rare occasions when they say, actually I could, I will then follow up and say, then are you okay with the time? Because clearly the time is not going to be immediate. So that’s what I mean about you need to first know what it is that you want money to do for you personally so that that can shape the kinds of business decisions that you make. Again, regarding your business model, your sales process and your pricing strategy.
I had a conversation recently with one of our accelerator students who said that they were only a few years off from f I and I that. Does that mean it?
F it? Well, that’s what I think. Okay. You know.
Because because, you know, I’ve heard like you have an effort number basically, and it’s just like, hey, I don’t even care at this point. But and that’s why I was like, wait, fi? And they said financial.
Independence, okay?
And I was like, okay, got you. And, you know, they have done this exact exercise that you’re talking about here where they they’ve figured out what they need to make in order to sustain a lifestyle that makes them happy. And, you know, they were like, you know what really doesn’t take a lot in order to do that. And so I thought that was so because I thought a lot about it afterwards. I thought it
was like, so interesting. I’m like, I haven’t done that exercise. I haven’t done the exercise, to be honest, that you’re talking about here. And I think it’s so important. So how do we start, you know, coming up with, all right, my life style, let’s just say as a number like, okay, I did 10,000 a month in order to have the lifestyle that I want. How do we start calculating or do we start calculating like, all right, well, I want 10,000, but then there’s taxes, so I need to plan for taxes. And then once I know that well, let’s just I don’t I feel like we can dig into this so much here. So 10,000 lifestyle, that’s what I want. But it doesn’t really account for anything future basis. So wealth building. Talk a little bit about about that. So where we say, okay, well I need $10,000 to keep up my lifestyle, that I want to live for myself and my family, but it doesn’t account for the future.
Yeah. So there are a couple of things that I think I want to pull out and what you just shared. And one is that oftentimes when people are pricing, they’re pricing for what they need in the immediate moment. So their pricing to meet that 10,000. But what they’re not doing is pricing for the fact that they are going to need money in the future A and B, they’re not pricing factoring in that There’s volatility with everything, including our sales cycles. Right. And so even if you don’t, quote unquote have a seasonal business, there is a seasonality to how business operates, right? Sure. So if you are only pricing to meet your current needs today, then you’re not preparing yourself for when you have one or two months when you’re not actually making 10,000. And then you’re also not pricing in such a way that you put yourself in a position to actually invest, invest in the stock market, invest in another business, invest in income producing real estate, because you’re only thinking about short term liquidity or cash flow. And so I always say to people that when you’re pricing, the factors you need to weigh is are you pricing for profit? And if you’re not, is that strategic? Are you pricing for sustainability both short term and long term cash flow? Are you pricing in such a way that you are taking into account the value that your business brings to the table in general, but also that that specific offer brings in terms of the promise that you are making and the expectation that people have based on that promise and have you priced in such a way that it is again contributing to your the vision that you have for your personal finances, both immediate and long term and also midterm? So for me, pricing has really there are four jobs to the price, if you will, and those those are the four jobs.
And I think oftentimes people only really focus on if this is profitable. And then, by the way, they don’t necessarily even think about that. Yeah, they don’t think about the profitability of each particular offer. They only think about overall revenue and overall profitability. I don’t want to make a blanket statement, but what I’ve seen is that a lot of people, if they have more than one offer, they don’t actually interrogate to make sure that each offer is profitable.
What kind of I mean, I know this is going to vary, obviously from the type of business, but, you know, just generally in an online business standpoint, what kind of profitability would you recommend for an offer? Because you’re absolutely right. This is something that I never thought about myself just up until a few years ago, where it’s like, Oh, we had this offer, this is the price, this is the amount of revenue I want to generate from it. But there was no thought in my head around the profitability of that offer. So what might we be looking at from a profitability standpoint?
You know, it’s really hard to say because it depends so much on the scope of what someone offers and and who their client is. But I would I would I would recommend that perhaps as a starting point or a gauge 10% and look at what what does it look like and what does it feel like to have a business that overall has 10% profitability and each offer is 10% and then, you know, boost it? What does that look like at 20%? Like what adjustments do I need to make either to the offer or to the price or to the trade off in terms of what’s
being offered at that price? So I think if you have an experimental mindset and you’re like, I’m going to start first with making sure I’m 10% have that solid and then boost it to 20% and then 30% and 50% like do it incrementally.
So I think I think that’s one of the really amazing things about what we do in the online business where, you know, I have some accelerators who are 60, 70, 80% profit margin. Now we’re talking in the overall business and, you know, it’s like that is really high. Very successful. Right. So there’s a lot of money going into the bank. Now, I want to go back to you mentioned so we’re talking about let’s just use that $10,000 a month, you know, lifestyle goal. When we. So again, like you just mentioned, like that, just cash flow, that’s immediate cash flow. But if we want to start incorporating any kind of wealth building practices like the stock market, like real estate, etc., is there a place to start with that? Like how does one get started in saying or in like, is there an amount and I know what I’m I’m asking like specific questions and I understand it’s different for everybody, but like if somebody is doing all doing well, they’re funding their lifestyle, but yet they’re not thinking about future based planning. Where does one start?
I’m hearing two things in your in your question. So one of the things that I’m hearing in your question is where do I start first to have the additional funds to invest, Right? And so that more than likely means that something the price of something that you offer needs to be increased. So that’s the first thing.
So if that like what comes up for me too is like, yes, on the pricing, can we also be thinking about volume taking us up on our offer?
So here’s here’s where it gets really interesting, right? So I love to use this example. I love a hamburger, but I don’t make hamburgers. I do not cook them at home. But I love a hamburger and I love to use this example because even if someone doesn’t eat meat or doesn’t like a hamburger, they can come up with a substitute and work along with me. But when you think about a hamburger, you can get a hamburger at McDonald’s, You can get a hamburger at your local diner, at your bistro, or at a steakhouse. Sure, the price is going to change at each of those different places. The quality of the beef is going to be different. The quality of your dining experience is going to be different. And guess what? Both do really well. There are some McDonald’s franchises that are, you know, there are hitting it out of the park in terms of their revenue. And then there are some fine dining experiences in restaurant companies that are also hitting it out of the park. However, there is a volume game. And so for a small business owner, the question becomes if you want to hit a particular number but you want more volume, do you actually have the operational efficiency and the team to be able to handle that volume so that you are actually scaling and not growing? Because I hear a lot of conversation in our space around scaling and growing. And I don’t know if sometimes people realize that they’re conflating while those two words do mean the same thing growth, they also the approach is very different. When you’re scaling, you’re growing without increasing your expenses. When you’re growing, you’re growing while increasing your expenses. So if you take on more volume, is that going to then increase your expenses, which then might actually reduce your profit margin?
Yeah.
So those are all of the different things that you have to, I think, be mindful of and really be discerning around whether or not the words you say map with the actions and the choices that you will ultimately have to make. So you could make it up in volume, but at what cost?
Yeah, I’m so glad you bring that up in distinguishing between the two things. Absolutely. I was working while we are working with somebody in our accelerator program right now who wants to do just that, they understand that they can scale the business, but in order to do that, they understand they need to. They need to strengthen the foundation of the business operationally. And so that’s what we’re all working with with them on. So I’m so glad you bring that up as far as the distinguishing that volume versus pricing. So if we need to increase our price to in order to fund, if you will, some planning for future wealth, let’s say we do that. So in our lifestyle, again, I’m asking you a specific question. I understand this is probably probably not a specific answer. 10,000 a month lifestyle goal. Is there sort of like a percentage of that that we would want to consider adding on in additional revenue in order to fund wealth building for the future?
I’m going to and I know people are going to get tired of this example, but I’m going to stick with it. And that is 10%. 10%. Okay.
Yeah. If you can even just do 10% of that and have that go into a mutual fund, if you’re not really adept at picking stocks and if you’re going to do stocks and you’re and you’re not adept at it, what I would suggest is that you buy stocks of the companies and services that you already use, because then that’s a form of recycling. So if you already, you know, if your house is fitted with all electronics from company A, then buy that stock because. Then that’s going to recycle back to you. Or if you use, you know, a company that starts with a Z all the time, you might want to buy that stock.
Okay.
So that’s one way if you are not skillful with choosing stocks of doing it because you are already familiar with the product and service that you’re buying the stock of. Otherwise, just buy mutual funds, whether it’s an index fund or an ETF, and that will be a great way to start.
Okay. At what point you mentioned income producing real estate, At what point? Again, I know this is going to be different, but is there is there a certain point that somebody reaches in revenue generation from their business that it becomes a more logical time, if you will, to begin thinking about that?
So I’m going to lean into my former hat of managing money and then just ask everybody to think of a portfolio. So when you have a portfolio, right, you’ve got different assets and you have different asset classes. And the whole idea is to be diversified so that when one asset is performing really well and the other one isn’t, it’s offset by when that changes. I think similarly the same is true when it comes to thinking through Again, if you offer more than one thing, thinking through how each of your offers are an asset, how do they contribute overall to the portfolio? And to answer your question more specifically, if you’re thinking about your business and investing in the stock market and investing in income producing real estate as a portfolio, then the question becomes what am I focusing on right now to grow? What am I focusing on and adding more to, to grow faster than the other? And if I’m going to say, okay, for the next couple of years, I really want to prioritize investing in income producing real estate. So then you are adding more resources to that bucket that’s going to provide you with the liquidity to actually invest in those real estate endeavors. Does that answer your question?
Yes. Yeah. And so while I was hoping that you give me a number.
I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. I’m sorry. No, no.
Here’s the other reason why. For not giving a number. There are so many different variables, right? I live in New York City. The number that one would need to buy an apartment in New York City is very, very different than perhaps the number that someone would need to buy an apartment in, say, Tennessee.
Right.
Right. It’s just it’s so different. So that’s why I can’t really give a specific number.
Everybody is a different situation. Different different situation for for everybody now. So I’m in this boat right now where I’m really fascinated by and I don’t have any income producing real estate at this point. However, it’s it’s a very much an interest of mine, and I’m starting to learn. I haven’t started to learn, but I’ve set myself up to start to learn, if that makes sense. What do you recommend for people looking to learn more about stock market investing, real estate, income producing, real estate, investing, that sort of thing?
So I would actually start with a mock portfolio for both of them. So on the real estate side, right, I would, I would suggest that people spend some time exploring and investigating What kind of real estate are you looking to build up your income producing real estate with residential property, with commercial property, with a hybrid. Start thinking about where you want to do that. Start thinking about
what are the down payment requirements because that then becomes your savings goal, right? I always say to people, you should have more than one savings account and more than one bucket. That will help to inform how much money you are putting in that bucket. And then similarly for stocks, you can begin to have a mock portfolio where you’re not putting any money in, but you are testing your your ability to to choose stocks that are in alignment with what you want it to do in terms of do you want income producing like dividend stocks that will give you a dividend right now or are you just purely focused on appreciation? Try it with, you know, play money on a spreadsheet for a little bit of time to help build up your confidence and then actually use some real money.
I like that. And there are sites out there, I don’t know, off the top of my head, but there are sites out there. I know that you can do that with where you can just kind of play around and say, Oh, you know, I’m starting. With, whatever, $5,000 and I want to buy these stocks and it’s just kind of you kind of play the game and it’s not actual real money.
Right.
In terms of setting that.
Up, there are definitely platforms that will help you to do that. And then also there are platforms that will help you to just do it fractionally. So like if you were like, I just want to get started right away, you could just do something like ACORN, which will just take, you know, your over. Like if you what is that thing it’s called? If you if something costs $0.90 and you have that threshold at $1, it’ll take that 10%, that $0.10 and invest it. I’m just using that as an example. But it takes that difference and it invested in the stocks that you want to purchase because you can do fractional shares, you could do even something like that.
So fascinated by this stuff. So when we talked earlier, you mentioned an example of somebody who’s doing really well in their business, couple of million dollars and you’re looking at the situation where. That could be they could be doing double in revenue.
Yeah.
I want you to share what this like, share as much as you’re able to. And let’s break this down. And why isn’t the business double?
Yeah. So I’m glad you remembered that from our conversation, because I think that this this is one of the things that gets a lot of people in trouble, especially when they are on the million dollar train without really knowing what they want the million dollars to do for them. So to bring everybody in the loop, I was sharing the example of a client who has a several million dollar business that could actually be double it. And the reason it isn’t is because they are not charging as much as they they could. And there are a whole host of reasons for that. And also they are doing work that they actually shouldn’t do because they’ve hired a team to do it and the team’s not doing it. And that’s another issue. But when we unpack all of it, what it ultimately boils down to is this person comes from a family where it is first generation. And in her family it was all about education. And she did all of the things that they said that, you know, this is what you do, right? Went to Ivy undergrad Ivy Business school, worked at a white shoe accounting consulting firm, went to a partnership and now has her own. And the problem, though, is that growing up, the messaging that she got was don’t be like those rich people. And now she is from a financial standpoint, quote unquote, like those rich people. But when I talked earlier about identity and emotions, there is an internal conflict around, okay, now I have the money that puts me in this category that allows me to do things and to help my family that I couldn’t before, hadn’t even maybe even dreamed of being able to do before.
But yet I have this unspoken voice in the back of my head of Don’t Be Like That, and that people don’t realize how those silent influences are actually really, really loud when it comes to, you know, influencing how you run your business, how you price your services, how you might internalize why you know, on your own. When you put out proposals, you get pushback. But when you were inside a partnership or when you were inside a consulting firm, you didn’t get pushed back and you’re like, well, wait a second, I’m quote unquote, doing the same thing. So all of that is wrapped up. And that’s why I always remind people that, you know, when we’re talking about money and when we’re talking about pricing, it’s never just about the numbers. And especially when it comes to pricing, it’s so much a reflection of your relationship with money, the relationship that you have with yourself and the people that are influencing you, the relationship that you have with your business. Because if you are in that situation, you can sometimes get really frustrated and angry that your business is not supporting you. But we’ve got to turn it around and think about, well, what do you need to do to be more supportive of your business? And then the final piece or the fourth piece in that element is what’s the relationship that you have with your buyers, be it the prospects, the clients or the customers? All of that shapes how you approach pricing, how you think about it, and all of that is influenced by money.
So what comes up for me when you thank you for sharing that and what comes up for me is like my own personal experience. And some people have told me they’re like, Oh, stop talking about your own personal experience growing up because there’s a whole lot worse cases. I’ve heard that from a.
Lot of people. I’m sorry that you heard that.
Yeah, it’s okay. I mean, it’s okay. I mean, and like, we were talking before, like, I grew up in very small town, New Hampshire, and I had those same types of that type of upbringing from a financial standpoint. You know, my my dad was a mechanic, auto mechanic. My mom was a children’s librarian. And so, you know, very blue collar, those quote unquote, fancy cars, you know, it’s us and them money doesn’t grow on trees. We can’t afford that, etc., etc.. And so I didn’t realize it until later in my life. And, you know, becoming an entrepreneur like none of my family is entrepreneurial in any in any way. So it’s just something that I think for me, it was born out of. I don’t like to take I don’t like to being told what to do. And so it was just kind of born from that. But anyway, that exactly what you’re talking about showed up for me very early on in my business, and I didn’t really know what was going on. And it wasn’t until I realized I became aware like, Oh, this is where it’s coming from. And I began to, you know, address that the. Whole money mindset thing. And so in the example that you just shared, what might they. What might be most helpful for them to do to, as you said, like reverse that. It’s like start. It’s not like it’s not working harder. It’s because most people that’s what they do, right, is they say, like, I got to double down, I got to work harder and longer and all this other stuff, Right? But it’s actually the opposite. So what what does that look like in sort of okay, let’s start to reverse this over here.
Well, one of the things that it looks like is first, like not being mad at the family.
Yeah.
Boy, you know how they’ve influenced you because they were doing the best that they could with what they knew and all that. So that would be the first thing. The second thing would be to choose one of the things that you offer as the starting point for making changes. So in this particular case, choosing one to offer and making sure that every single time that you put together a proposal is for more than what you’ve done in the past. It’s making sure that you put the team members that are not showing up the way that they should on a PIP on a performance improvement plan because. You’re paying them a heck of a lot of money for them not to do their job. So it shows up as doing things really, really uncomfortable.
Yeah. Yeah.
So why would the team why would the team thing come up for that example that you just shared? Why how does this what we’re talking about affect how they lead and manage the team? How does that what’s the correlation there?
The correlation is taking care of other people. And so if you are focused on taking care of other people and putting other people’s needs and preferences before you put your own, that is going to have an influence on then without you even knowing it and influence on how you even approach your business decisions. Because you are you don’t want to upset anybody. You don’t want, you know, to say no. And that shows up even when when you have a client who or prospect who says, Well, we like this proposal, but we want you to reduce share price and you don’t feel comfortable saying, no, this is the price. It shows up in a variety of different ways, but it comes back to the same thing. You’re putting other people before yourself.
Yeah. And when we’re when we’re considering a price range, I think we’re I know where you’re going to go with this. But I want to ask this. When we’re considering a price increase, let’s just say we have an online course and it’s, I don’t know, $1,000, but it’s really like the value of that. And what what it’s delivering for people should be like double 2000. But there’s a mindset around, ooh, I don’t I don’t know that I can cha I don’t know if I can double the price. And then there’s a whole bunch of mindset things around there which
oftentimes hold people back from doing it and then they sort of get stuck in that, Well, should I do it? I don’t feel comfortable with doing it. And then they just stay at $1,000 when they really truly could be charging 2004 and getting maybe it’s fewer people, but it’s more of the right people. So when somebody is considering that or really should be considering that, where do we start from a mindset perspective in giving? I don’t know. I don’t say like getting them to do it because that comes up a lot in accelerator. It’s like, All right, let’s one thing we can do right off the bat is exactly what you’re talking all about here is increase our price. And but there’s there’s oftentimes that I don’t know if I should I don’t if I can. I don’t people will buy. Where do we start with that?
So there are a couple of places to start. I think one, if we if we do indeed just look at the numbers, you can start incrementally. So you go from maybe 1000 to 1500 and do that for a bit of time and then get to the 2000. So you don’t have to do one fell swoop from 1000 to 2000. You can allow yourself to get comfortable with it. But I think really what you are speaking to is an issue of feeling like one deserves, right? Yep. And associated with that gives themselves permission to say, I’m going to work with the people that can afford my offer at $2,000.
Yeah.
Because basically what they’re saying is that I’m swimming in a pool that is no longer serving me, but I’m going to still try to get them to do something that I want them to do, as opposed to changing the pool and going with finding the folks that have no problem. They don’t question that 2000. They’re like, Yeah, let’s do it, bring it on.
Yeah.
But that requires some work. That requires getting out of your comfort zone, that requires perhaps asking as opposed to waiting for people to offer. Like it just it taps into everything going back again to that intersection of behavior, identity and emotions. It is going to ask you to do some things that you’re not comfortable doing, is going to ask you to see yourself in a different light and it’s going to kick up some emotions and you’ve just got to be willing to sit in the muck.
I love it. Sit in the muck.
I love it. I know. So eloquent.
Right? No, I love that. I love that. So what I’m really hearing is when, like, regardless of what we’re doing in our business from a revenue standpoint, from a an investing standpoint, a really good place to start would be to really think about money and like how we feel about it and what what’s our background. And, you know, as you as you’ve been talking about, maybe not realizing that we have an identity towards money, but like, oh, okay, well you now do everybody listening, you now know that you have, whether you realize it or not, an identity towards money and the emotional side, etc.. Would you agree like this is a good place to start regardless where somebody is at?
Yes, it is. And what I would also. Mind people is. What I would suggest to people is that don’t think of mindset more as a perspective and all perspectives can change, but they only change with action, right? Because you’ve got to do something and get some evidence that that serves as feedback for that action that you’ve taken in order for the perspective to change. And I find that sometimes when people are talking about mindset, they position it as though you can just think your way through to the other side of something. And I don’t think that’s that, that that’s really beneficial. I think that you’ve got to act your way through to the other side and that feedback is what helps you to shift your mindset slash perspective. Does that make sense?
Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, we talk a lot about mindset here on the show, and that’s one of the pillars that we that is a big part of our accelerator program. And you’re right, it’s like, okay, we start with a mindset, but like you have to be able to be taking action with the right mindset and like, you just I’m so glad you bring that up. It’s that perspective and so forth shifts in our mindset when different things happen, etc.. Yeah, I want to just loop back on one point as we as we start to wrap up here, This is something that I personally am really fascinated in. One thing that I’m starting to get into is to partner with some businesses from like a profit sharing perspective. Like I, you know, I consult and I help them grow their business from a profit sharing perspective. You mentioned earlier about investing in other businesses as a way of building wealth.
Mm hmm.
Talk more about that, because this is something that I’m really fascinated with personally. And I know this is a topic that doesn’t get talked a whole lot about, especially in the online space. And I know I mean, I can think of a solid group right now of people in my accelerator coaching program that this is something that they could be doing and just sort of be an additional source of revenue.
Absolutely. And I think that, again, going back to some of the conversation out in the world around that seven figure, I think oftentimes it is positioned as if that seven figures has to come from your business.
Yes.
As opposed to it coming from perhaps investing in other businesses or, like you said, having a profit sharing arrangement, which is another revenue stream which will contribute to that seven figure number. So I wholeheartedly believe in expanding what people view as what’s possible. So instead of the question being how can I earn seven figures just from my business? Shift the question to what’s possible to earn $1,000,000. Yeah, and that and if you do it as a mind map, right, one option or one smoke can be your business. Another smoke can be a revenue share arrangement that you have with other businesses. Another spoke could be the return on investment that you get from just a direct investment, like there are many different spokes. But that question that’s in the center is what do I need to do? What do I need to know? How do I generate like, however you want to phrase the question, but do it in such a way that you’re not just confining the options to the only avenue to make that happen is your business and your trade off in terms of time and money.
I’m so glad you bring that up because this is something that’s been on my mind. A lot lately, actually, but really started to come up and around the awareness of that a few years ago, where so many of us think exactly what you just said. You nailed it like our revenue only comes quote unquote from our business. Well, what in fact, it doesn’t have to. We can start thinking about these other avenues. And I literally had a conversation with my coach last week about this exact topic, and we were talking about other other other ways to create revenue streams. And I’m so glad you brought that up because it’s like, all right, let’s think outside the box and think about exactly what you just said, what’s possible? What’s possible. There’s a whole lot more that can be done and at the revenue from our business can be funding to help build our wealth.
Yes, absolutely. I love apps, a mind map and a question. Best friends.
That’s so true. That’s really true. Actually. I’ve never thought of it like that. But yeah, that’s like that’s what my map is accomplishing for us. What is the best book you’re going to say? Wait, I can’t choose one, but I’m going to have you choose one best book that you recommend for people on this subject of financial, financial education when it comes to being an entrepreneur. Oh.
This is a this doesn’t fall neatly into being an entrepreneur, but it does speak to being an investor. And if we adopt a mindset of thinking of ourselves as entrepreneurs, as being investors, I think it can be really helpful. It’s an old book, but I think the principles of it are classic, and it’s called The Secret Code of the Superior Investor, and it’s by James Glassman. Got it. And I really like it because it reminds people that when you are investing in businesses, fundamentally, you are investing in people. And so how do you evaluate the companies based upon the people that are managing those companies? Right. And clearly you are assessing the their ability to manage well based upon their results. But what are the things that you’re looking at? And so it helps you to not get caught up in the flavor of the moment and develop much more strategic processes and ways of thinking that withstand the test of time and that allow you to also remain steady as the market goes up and down. And I think that that’s a part of being an entrepreneur, right? How do you remain steady when your revenue goes up and down, when how you feel about your business goes up and down?
Right. Right.
It always does.
So it’s not an entrepreneur’s book, but I think if you read it with that lens in mind, it can help you be an even better entrepreneur.
I actually thought that’s how you would answer that question, because there’s so there’s so many instances where it’s like so many great books that like, don’t quote unquote align perfectly with our situation, but we can take the principles in that book and apply it to our situation. So the secret code of the superior investor, I’ll link it up, guys in the show notes for the episode.
James K Glassman.
James K Glassman. Got it. Okay. Where can people connect with you? I notice a lot of people who want to know what you’re up to, what you have to offer, how they can work with you, etc., etc..
Awesome. Well, thank you for that invitation. Absolutely. They can go to my site Jack latimes.com. And if they want to download the financial, we’ll exercise and actually spend some time going through those questions. It’s free. They can just do cut Timmins dot com forward slash we’ll and I love me some Instagram so come follow me on Instagram.
This at Timmons.
It’s at Jack em Timmons my middle initial is in there but they just put my name in the search bar.
I’ll come up, okay, and I’ll link everything up in the show notes for today’s episode. Jacquet Thank you so much. This, as I keep saying, look, this whole subject fascinates me and I know so many of my listeners here. This is something that we’re not necessarily thinking about but really need to be thinking about. And if we’re not ready to be doing this, it’s never too late to be or never too early, I should say, to be thinking about this and preparing for the future. And then I also have a whole bunch of listeners and students who are absolutely ready for this. And so there’s a ton of value here. So. Thank you for coming on and sharing your brilliance. A really, really appreciate it.
Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed our conversation. And I’d like to add to your it’s never too early. It’s also never too late.
Ah, good point. Good point.
Thank you for clarifying that.
That’s so glad you added that.
Thank you again.
Oh, my goodness. Thank you.
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