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As your business grows, so do the demands on your time and energy.
The very thing you’ve nurtured and cultivated now requires more than just your solo efforts to thrive.
In this episode, we dive deep into the concept of a second-in-command and explore why it can be the next critical step in taking your business to new heights. To shed light on this topic, we’ve invited Kara Barnes, a seasoned expert in fractional integration and CEO of Backstage Ops, to share her invaluable insights.
During our conversation, Kara unravels the reasons, benefits, and signs that indicate your business is ready for a second-in-command. She also provides practical strategies for enhancing accountability and fostering a culture of ownership within your organization.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- The importance of accountability in teams and businesses
- How to design a second-in-command relationship
- The financial readiness required for leadership roles
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Rick Mulready’s Links:
- Visit Rick’s website
- DM Rick on Instagram
- Full episodes of The Art of Online Business Podcast on YouTube
Kwadwo [QUĀY.jo] Sampany-Kessie’s Links:
- Grab the Facebook Ads Lead Gen Cheat Code course to cut your lead costs and double your email list!
- Visit Kwadwo’s website for Facebook Ads help
- Visit Kwadwo’s website to learn how he can hire a VA for you:
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Kara Barnes’s Links:
- Book a call with Kara
- Know more about Kara Barnes
- Visit Backstage Ops
Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction
02:18 – About Kara Barnes
03:05 – The role of vision in integration and scalability
06:42 – The value of fractional experts in small business success
11:56 – Operations and metrics: keys to success
14:00 – Measuring operational success in business
18:07 – The importance of accountability for small businesses
22:22 – The benefits of hiring a manager for improved results
23:20 – Elevating your business with higher-level support
27:45 – How an integrator can help build a successful business funnel
Speaker 1:
What I will say a lot of times is that business owners and visionaries thought leaders. They’re great leaders. They’re not always good managers, and that’s okay, right Like sometimes we’re just really close to the things happening in our business, and so I think, in terms of the financial investment, that’s something to consider that if you’re pouring a lot of money into people that aren’t working, maybe consider having someone with a different skill set come in and support you with that and maybe be able to reflect back how you can show up differently to make those relationships more effective.
Speaker 2:
Hey there, kwejo here, and I have a question for you Is your business ready to hire that second in command who can take care of your operations, so that you can operate as the visionary, the CEO of your business and grow it, explode its growth in the way that you are uniquely meant to do so? Well, in this episode, rick and I interview Kara Barnes, and she is an experienced fractional integrator or chief operating officer, and she runs an agency that supplies online course creators and coaches with a second in command so that their business can grow tons. You’re going to like this interview. Without further ado, let’s hop into the episode.
Speaker 3:
What’s up, my friends? We’re talking operations today, one of my favorites, I mean we just did an episode record episode about data. I would say streamlining your business is, I would say, even more so than data. I love this conversation about operations and streamlining when we start talking to Kara today, our guests. I want to share an example of something that’s actually happening with a coaching client, literally right now. I just had this conversation yesterday no specific names or anything like that, but talking about this whole role of integrator, whether to bring it in full time, this conversation about whether it’s a fractional integrate. I have some very deep thoughts on these things because I’ve worked with, I’ve had a full time integrator, I’ve had a fractional integrator, I have had an OBM. So, rachel, let’s dive into it.
Speaker 2:
Let’s go, and it’s okay if the listener or even we don’t have it all figured out yet. I’ve had an actual integrator too, and I currently don’t. I just have a VA who is really good at operations. So, kara, I met you at the podcast movement and, as Rick has seen, many of the recent guests on the podcast have come from well, that conference. I went to the podcast movement. It was a very serendipitous meeting and as soon as we met, once you told me what you do, I was like you need to come on the podcast because the listener for sure wants to grow their business and inevitably that involves a team of some sort and then having somebody who can manage the team as the business continues to scale. So, kara, take it away by first answering my question what is at stake if somebody has grown their business, let’s say, to $400,000 a year in gross annual revenue? What’s at stake if they don’t bring in a second command?
Speaker 1:
It’s a great question.
Speaker 1:
I think what’s at stake is less freedom and some limitation to scale.
Speaker 1:
I think that a lot of this discussion around whether or not we bring in an integrator what that looks like, how involved they are, what we need from them a lot of those answers are going to vary based on the visionary. What does that visionary need? What do they want to be doing with their time and energy? If there’s a visionary that is more interested in managing their team and wants to stay small and stay in control of all the details, they’re going to need different things than a visionary who can’t check anything off a to-do list to save their life because they’re coming up with 30 ideas a minute. It’s going to be very much based on the goals of the visionary and so I think for visionaries who want to lean more into their thought leadership, they want to go big, they want to scale, they want to be bigger than where they’re at now I think there are a lot of folks who could benefit from leaning into the idea of a second command and starting to make that part of their vision.
Speaker 3:
Let’s really define, Kara, what, in your eyes, second in command means? Sure, Because I have a follow-up question that I get asked all like I get. I want the person to do this and I’ll clarify in a second both of these things, but I can never find that person. So let’s start by clarifying what. How do you define that second in command person?
Speaker 1:
First of all, I’m really excited to be talking with you all because a lot of people don’t they haven’t thought about this, they don’t really know that. You know, they’re sort of like I don’t know. I’ve heard this language, maybe, of integrator, but the fact that you all have some experience with this and some opinions, I’m really excited to hear your honest thoughts on it and I think to me, the way that I design second command relationships is, for the most part, aligned with more traditional EOS philosophies. So for folks who are familiar with EOS and the book Traction and Rocket Fuel that visionary integrator partnership where the visionary is responsible for going out, getting the big ideas, coming up with the ideas that are going to be cutting edge in the marketplace. They’re responsible for closing big deals, building relationships. They’re really in the spotlight and thought leadership.
Speaker 1:
They do not touch the day-to-day management of the business and they don’t a lot of times make the final decisions about what happens in the business. The integrator’s role is to manage the team. So everyone that your business hires vendors, contractors, employees alike respond to that or report, excuse me, to that second command, the integrator, and that person is working at a managerial and strategic level in your business alongside you. The vision casting is still you as a business owner and the ultimate visionary there, but you rely heavily on the strategic mind of the person who has their fingers in the business and is alleviating you from having your hands in the business. So I think, yeah, having the direct report piece of it is important to me that I don’t want my business owners and my visionaries that I work with to have anyone on their team reporting to them once we have fully implemented our integrator roles.
Speaker 3:
Is the integrator actually doing things also?
Speaker 1:
That’s a great question.
Speaker 3:
Because this is what people want, right? Like I hear this from people I work with, like I’m thinking of a person right now. I just had this conversation with them with Sudei Wins like on I don’t know, actually yesterday. They were like I’m looking for this person, but I want them to run the team, but I also want them doing things.
Speaker 1:
Right, yeah, it’s a great question. I think this is why the fractional stuff has become so popular, right, it’s because small businesses are starting to appreciate more and more having people in their zone of genius and having folks who are in their expertise. The only way you can do that is by either asking someone to do their expertise and XYZ, or fractional and saying, great, we’re going to have you own this, but you don’t touch anything else in the business. So it’s a really good question. I think the strongest operators and strongest integrators are going to be people who don’t do anything else. I think if you are asking them to put implementation on their plate in addition to their role as integrator and managing the team, you are more likely to burn them out, to undermine their ability to bring their best strategic game. I think, again, some of this does come back to what the visionary brings to the table, because, at the end of the day, you have to compliment each other, and so if the integrator isn’t strong in one place, the visionary needs to pick up the slack and vice versa, and that all needs to be a point of discussion and that needs to be an ongoing conversation where people are really honest about what they want to be doing, what they bring, so that people don’t burn out.
Speaker 1:
I would say to Quage’s questions about why can’t I have a super VA, similar sort of answer there. I think you can, and I think a lot of times people have a great VA that lasts four to six months and then that person moves on because they have skills. They have skill sets that they want to bring to the table. They would want to think strategically about your business, they want to level up. So I think that’s a more common experience. Unless you figure out, how do I make sure people get into their zone of genius? You’re going to lose them or their abilities are going to be undermined if you’re asking too many things of them. Does that answer your question, rick?
Speaker 3:
Totally.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
And it brings up like 17 more questions. I think one of them that people think about is like okay, this is all well and good. I know I should have a second in command to run the day to day so that I can spend more time in my genius. I would, as one, know that this role is being successful in why I brought them onto the team. Do you know? Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:
Totally yeah, because they’re thinking holy cow, I got to spend a lot of money to hire this person. Like, how do I validate whether this is successful or not?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I mean Kweju, and I have talked about this a bit. So I think, when it comes to measuring the success of the relationship, I think a lot of times as the business owner, even though it’s maybe not your natural inclination, not your natural skill sets I think it is on you to design those metrics before you bring folks into your team. There’s a certain level of operations that you have to step into to be able to answer a question like that if you’re going to bring folks in right. So things like asking that second command to not just be strategy Like I was talking to someone this morning who they were calling themselves a consultant, they were calling themselves a business manager, and when I said, well, what do you want that to look like, he said well, I want them to pick up the phone and they need something that I don’t want to be involved past that. I just want to give them nuggets of wisdom and drop the fire, and then they’re going to go figure it out. You know, I said that’s that’s fine. I think that’s what people are worried about. That that second command, that it’s going to be the strategic piece. You need that management piece. You need somebody who’s willing to build relationships with your team to have the hard conversations about what it like, what do you want to do as a business owner? And they have a lot of respect for you as a business owner and you as the visionary.
Speaker 1:
I’ll tell you, I’m in a lot of communities with folks who are in these second command kinds of roles and there can be a lot of tension.
Speaker 1:
Right, if you’ve read Rocket Fuel, you know that some of the natural budding heads that happens with folks where you know someone behind the scenes might be resentful of the person in the spotlight or you know, the second command behind the scenes is it can be a thankless job, you know, and visionaries can be difficult, and so I think that before you’re ready to bring someone in to support you, there’s a certain amount of letting go, there’s a certain amount of readiness, mentally and emotionally and energetically towards your business that you need to really want to partner with that person fully and invite them into it, and I think a lot of business owners struggle to get there or they’re not quite there.
Speaker 1:
So I think, to answer your question, I think developing and focusing on operations for a little while before you invite someone in to support you with it because I think you need to understand, as the business owner, what metrics matter to you and start to think that way about it, so you have more of an appreciation of what that person brings to the table when they come in to support you with it. Does that make?
Speaker 2:
sense it does. Yeah, for sure. Can you break it down, though? When you talk about focusing on operations and developing them, Is there a checklist, an operations checklist of these things that we should be focusing on?
Speaker 1:
I mean checklist is the right word.
Speaker 3:
Just as that, kara. I think what a lot of people do is they hire this integrator second income, whatever you want to call it to create the operational systems in the business. So I just want to make sure that we add that element to breaking this down.
Speaker 1:
Yes.
Speaker 3:
Because what I’m hearing from you is like no, probably not. Like have a level of operational efficiency prior to bringing this person in Some systems.
Speaker 1:
maybe I think you got to have something. I think you got to have something to get a quality integrator who’s going to come in and want to support you, because if you are someone who doesn’t yet have an appreciation for process and operations and what that might do for your business, you’re not going to have a lot of buy-in to someone on the outside who’s trying to come in and create those things. So that’s why I would invite you to think about bringing some of that in before you take that step to have a second command In terms of breaking this down. I think the metrics is a huge one. Have you actually laid out what it looks like in your business to have metrics, to start measuring success? And that, I think, in terms of thinking more operationally, is going to force you to answer a lot more questions and you’re going to walk down that road of operations quickly.
Speaker 1:
Quaid I’ll use the word checklist, I think, starting to come up with step-by-step documentation for some of the things that happen in your business. It doesn’t take much for business owners to have a click go in their brain Like, oh, this is what operations will look like in my business. So, for example, I talked to someone today who has a 30-day launch plan and they’re really excited about it, and I asked what aspects of this are standardized from person to person. He said it’s completely different every time and for him it’s about customization. I’m like that’s great and that is one way to run a business, but it has to be an intentional choice. If you’re going to do custom services, that needs to be how you approach your business and design your systems around that, so you’re not spending 60 hours on every contract when you were expecting to spend 20. So it’s a little bit of like systems force you to be more intentional about the way you’re running your business and the choices you make in your business.
Speaker 3:
Can you give us an example, ocara, of like one thing, because people listening right now they’re like, okay, cool. What is an example of a success metric that I might be able to? Of course, they’re conditional per business, they’re going to be different, but there’s also going to be common, like pretty common metrics of success, and our audience loves specific examples. What’s one example of a success metric?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, thank, you for pushing me on that. I think for pushing for specifics because, you’re right, operations can be very abstract and kind of nebulous in that way. So I think when I think about metrics that folks need to be thinking about in order to start thinking a little bit more operationally about their business, it’s going to be things that will tell you how all the aspects of your business are doing. So. Are we getting new prospect phone calls booked? Are we getting visits to the web pages that were the campaign that we’re driving? Are we getting folks in the door from start to finish in the three-week window that we want to during our client experience and really starting to look at the inputs and the outputs, thinking again intentionally about what are the specific steps that we’re taking to be more strategic, about the way we’re approaching business, and then what are the outcomes that we’re watching for? Just having to answer those questions is going to force you to think a lot more operationally about your business. How do we make sure that it’s the same every time for folks who work with us and want to send us to someone else, and they should be getting just as quality of an experience as the person who referred them. So those are some specific metrics that I’m thinking of.
Speaker 1:
I also think finances is inevitably a big piece of this.
Speaker 1:
Right, If you want to bring on a team member, that’s a chunk out of your pocket.
Speaker 1:
I think when people ask me about financial readiness for this role, I encourage them to think about in their vision, to start setting metrics in their vision. Get specific about the metrics for their vision. So, in three years, what exactly do you want to have in revenue? What exactly do you want to have in terms of number of clients and activity in your business? Because I think the more that you can start to place a second command in your vision if that is something you’re excited about the more you can design that role to make sense for you and the things you’re actually trying to achieve. So then, this question of financial readiness comes back to like well, if one of your goals for three years out is that you work a 10-hour work week and your value is clearly freedom there, then that’s going to affect how quickly you need to bring in a second command and how much you’re willing to invest in that person financially. Right, and have that all in mind as you’re making those decisions about your finances in the years to come.
Speaker 3:
So let’s just say that the marketing person has a goal of I’m just going to make this up 3,000 leads in the next quarter.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
So the second in command person, the integrator, if you will, is running the day to day. They’re driving business results forward. Are they ultimately, in your eye, ultimately responsible for that result?
Speaker 1:
I think yes, and I think you know. If I go in terms of EOS philosophies, I would say yes, they are, and it requires that you have right. I mean high accountability, like people in the right, the right people in the right seats. You know this EOS lingo. I think an integrator should be able to be held responsibility for the outcome and if it’s not a positive outcome, I guess the big and is that they should be able to identify what went wrong specifically, and I think that there was somebody in the wrong seat. Was it that this was a realistic metric? For these reasons, or they should be able to give you a really detailed, thoughtful answer as to what’s going on because, yeah, they’re deeply involved in the success of the initiatives in the business.
Speaker 3:
So I think for everybody listening right now, that right there should provide a lot of the word that’s popping up that doesn’t sound right, is comfort, because so many people that you know, so many CEOs, are feeling like they’re driving everything forward. And one of the big pieces of work that I do when I’m working with somebody is like the team needs to own result. It’s not just ticking a box and when you have an integrator, if you will, who’s driving the business forward and responsible for that, like you know, what Caritas said is like if something doesn’t work out the way that it was hoping to be worked out, like they should be able to come to you, they being the integrator, with why that happens and maybe what can be done to fix that. Going forward, absolutely.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I mean, I think for. So I have an agency where we offer fractional integrator roles and support people with their business in this way, or hands on the folks on my team or hands on in their business. I think when folks come to me and like the idea of an integrator, what I’m immediately going to is how is accountability on your team, how’s accountability on your business? And I will tell you that radical ownership is missing in small business. It is like, especially when there’s this contractor attitude of sort of entitlement like well, you know, I’m a contractor, so I don’t owe you this or that and when really I would love for people to be able to lean and have it be the opposite I’m a contractor, so I need to make sure that you’re happy as my client, right?
Speaker 1:
So I think what I end up doing to start is increasing the level of accountability by whatever means we need to, so that, like you said, like at the end of the day, if I’m held responsible as the integrator, I need to know exactly where the breakdown happened and exactly you know who’s effective on your team and who’s not, and how are we going to handle that, so I can tell you on a daily basis that me and the people on my team are sending emails and businesses that increase accountability. I’m saying, oh, I don’t know if you saw my email here, but I’m, you know. I need a response from these folks here to make sure that you saw this right. So helping to shift that culture of communication and accountability is a piece of it, because I take that very seriously. We do get help with results.
Speaker 3:
What you’re describing right now, I can. I can literally see people listening right now and what you’re describing is like nirvana, like really like somebody is actually doing this and holding people accountable on the team and then reporting back to me, like you know, the CEO of like status, where we’re at, why, where we are. You know where we are and what’s working. It’s not working so well. You mentioned this, the concept of fractional integrator. We’ve talked about it a little bit. You know, like fractional CMO, fractional CFO. Can you describe for our audience here, like, what is this concept of a fractional integrator? Because most of the conversation is like, oh, I’ve hired an integrator full time on the team, so what’s the difference there when it comes to a fractional integrator?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, absolutely. I think this is, I will say, a little controversial because it’s sort of an evolving term. It’s new to the scene, people are still kind of getting accustomed to it. So I’ve heard people say different, different answers here.
Speaker 1:
I would say fractional to me in some ways is a fancy word for part time and the reason that it is existing outside of the you know the words part time is because in small business you need leadership the same way big business does. Right. You need people who can think really high level strategically about your business to help you be successful. And so inviting people on a fractional basis, I think can sort of maintain a level of respect and accolade for the level of strategy that they’re going to bring in, even though it might be a small business where we’re up and still growing, getting off our feet. So I think that is how I think about fractional. It typically is five to 15 hours. I’ve heard more.
Speaker 1:
I will encourage people, if they’re going to go this route, to try to think in terms of committing for six months if you can, because you’re inviting someone to really partner and get involved in your business in a real way. It’s going to take time to heed results from that. So if you want an operations leader in a fractional capacity, that’s something to be thinking about, I will say, with a CFO or a CMO. I think these are excellent resources for small business owners who are ready to step up and take their business a little bit more seriously and go to the next level, because you are going to have a better marketing outcome and a better financial outcome if you have a team of folks behind you with one person rallying them to be really strategic and high level in a way that you just can’t do it all. So if you have the resources to start investing there, I think it’s an excellent way that small business is going.
Speaker 2:
So many questions we have for you. My question, kara, is all right, I feel like the resources are there profit-wise. Can you break down for the listener some of the other telltale signs that, yes, it is time to hire an integrator?
Speaker 1:
If you’re hiring folks in a contractor capacity, especially if you’re hiring virtual assistants and they are failing and you are having retention issues on an ongoing basis and it seems like nobody is ever effective and you’re always having to do things yourself. If that’s how it feels, there’s a really good chance that it’s worth investing in someone who has more of a management focus in their role. What I will say a lot of times is that business owners and visionaries, thought leaders. They’re great leaders. They’re not always good managers and that’s okay, right. Like, sometimes we’re just really close to the things happening in our business, and so I think, in terms of the financial investment, that’s something to consider that if you’re pouring a lot of money into people that aren’t working, maybe consider having someone with a different skill set come in and support you with that and maybe be able to reflect back how you can show up differently to make those relationships more effective. I mean, I’m not going to tell you that when your business has an extra $3,000 laying around a month, that’s the time, like I mean, of course, sure, that’s great If you have tons of money coming in and you’re not feeling like you can be effective in your business, yeah, look into some higher level strategic support.
Speaker 1:
We only really work with folks who have been considering the fractional leadership thing for a while in their business and they’ve been setting aside a budget for it and thinking in terms of how much do they need to give up from the profit that they’re making from their business and trade that for the freedom of having someone come in and run their business for them Because it’s not cheap. It’s not cheap to have someone come in and share the burden of a business you’ve created. It’s a big ask and ideally you get a lot from them. I would say, just to give you all specific rates to be thinking about, I think I heard a friend of mine was talking about her fractional rates and I was kind of comparing it with mine.
Speaker 1:
I think it’s typically going to be between $1,500 and $3,500 a month, depending on the size of your business, the scope of the work, the level of I mean really the scope, depending on the scope of what you want that person to be able to accomplish. And I’ll say back to your original question about should they be implementing, should they? You know how hands on are they in doing the work. There are folks out there who will be operations minded and come in as a fractional integrator in your business. But maybe they also have a specialty in sales or they have a you know a background in marketing and they’re willing to sort of tap into some of that as part of their scope with you. I think it’s worth asking someone about that if there’s other ways you want them to support your business.
Speaker 3:
I have to ask one more question here, because you’ve mentioned the word strategy several times here. This comes up all the time. It came up for me for years and it came up in the conversation I was having yesterday with one of my coaching students. Is this concept of strategy they’re like I’m tired of being the only one to come up with ideas that the team is just sort of in their silos if you will just doing their thing, is an integrator or fractional integrator going to be helping? If you will, the CEO, the visionary, with these ideas for various areas of the business, whether it be growth or, obviously, operations, yes, or sales or whatever it might be, what kind of strategic input can this role have?
Speaker 1:
This looks a couple of different ways in the business as I work with. One of the things I think will most paint this picture is that at the start of each quarter, we sit down and we do an in-depth 90 day plan. Right, what are we focusing on the next 90 days? That’s really the priority with your client.
Speaker 1:
Correct.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, got you. Yep, what? What’s? What’s the priority in the next 90 days? And if you, again, for folks who are into EOS, we’ve got this 90-day world that we’re creating, right, a container to keep that focus, laser focus and then, as I’m in their business, managing their team, supporting them, maybe a month into that quarter, they come to me with an idea and, as the integrator, I’m the filter, right, and so I say that’s perfect, we’re gonna, you know, that’s gonna pair well with this initiative that we’re already focusing on. Let’s do it.
Speaker 1:
Or, a lot of times that’s a bit of a shiny object that would take tons of time and resources away from, you know, what we’ve committed to this quarter. Let’s put that on the agenda for the coming, the coming quarterly retreat that we’re gonna have. So, having those quarterly Retreats to be able to sit down and take, you know, take it from this solopreneurship that you, you know thing that you’re used to doing, to wow, I have a leadership retreat where I can sit down with someone and they’re just as Invested in the success of my business as I am. I think it’s a really powerful experience for people who want to take their business To the next level. So I think that’s a big one. And then I also think that you know you hear about organizational whiplash that a lot of visionaries and business owners will come back from a conference. They come back with their big ideas and they send the team running in this direction.
Speaker 1:
Right, and that’s that’s great, because the team is thrilled to have some direction and they’re going oh perfect, okay, I feel valuable, I can jump in and I can do the thing I’m told to be doing. But, like you just said, if there’s nobody there to say that’s an exciting idea, how does it tie in with these five other things We’ve been focusing on for the last two years to make sure that we’re not? You know, we’re not doing things in silos. We’re not doing strategies and silos. We got to bring it all together. That’s that’s really the skill of an integrator, the skill of an operations mind. It is juxtapote. It’s exactly counter to what you’re gonna get in a visionary mind. I can time. When I’m talking to folks, I can pretty quickly tell which way they think, because it’s just a different way of Moving through the world. So having that other, that brain to bounce things off, it’s really valuable as you were sharing about everything that an integrator can do.
Speaker 2:
One previous client was coming up and Not call them out I will use inner neutral pronouns, but I remember, as you know, they had hired me to help them build out their funnel and so, like a good funnel fixer, I took a look at their funnel and came up with a bunch of different things to do, you know, like Setting up a survey to figure out why People were purchasing so that we could hone their messaging in their funnel, you know.
Speaker 2:
And then working on the checkout page and Installing analytics to see of their like three offers on their website, which of the offers were selling the most with, like, organic traffic, because they had tons of organic traffic going to their website and so on and so forth. And I remember, during our fifth Call and this is like why my heart goes out to the listener who might have a very successful business, but they are like like so many of us, including me, realizing that they’re the bottleneck to the next stage of growth, because on the call, this person was quite frustrated because there are so many things to do and they had a team, but the members on their team were not Driving these initiatives forward. The members of the team would start and stop. This CEO didn’t follow up with them. Then so many things would get dropped, or the members of the team would come back to them to ask them how to connect various softwares or do different things.
Speaker 2:
And so you’re talking about just how much an integrator can impact the business and then also, having coached with you for the past several years, rick, seeing what it’s like for these individuals that have a very good obm or second in command, an integrator, what you would call them I just want to encourage the listener that it’s, it’s so worth it and if they feel A bit hesitant to let go of some of that control, it really is. There’s a light at the end of the tunnel. It’s brighter on the other side.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I’ll just offer that. I think this is a really challenging question whether, like, is this the right model for my business and what’s the right timing. I love having conversations about this because I do think they’re. You know, I guess to counter the argument I’ve been making the whole episode, I think there are people who can manage their teams really well and and have, you know, an integrator and visionary skill set, or they they want to keep their business small, or there’s other reasons that you might not. But if you’re not sure, I’m happy to be a resource. I, you know, I love to chat through the factors because I think it’s critical to design your business in a way that really Fits you as a leader speaking of which, and we will link this link up in the show notes below but where can somebody find you to have a chat about hiring an integrator?
Speaker 1:
Absolutely so. My agency is called backstage ops OPS. We work primarily with professional speakers and entertainers, but I’m I’m always in conversation with with all kinds of folks who are interested in thought, leadership and and expanding their, their brand. So, yeah, definitely reach out, let’s have a conversation.
Speaker 3:
Kara, I think we could talk forever about this. So thank you for coming on and sharing your expertise in this topic. Like I said, I love this, love this chat. It comes up all the time and it’s such a as Kato was saying such a critical piece of Growing the business, as so many people want to do, while working less. This is a huge way to be able to do that. So thank you.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:
Thanks for listening to that conversation between Rick and me and Kara, and I just want to encourage you, no matter where you are at in your business today, if you are contemplating Should you bring on a team member or even a second in command, you can find Kara her link is in the descriptions below and I encourage you to have that conversation Earlier than later so that you’re proactively setting up your business for more and more success. Again, thank you for listening. If you could go to apple podcasts and leave a review for this episode, it specifically helps us reach more online course creators and coaches like yourself To help them level up their income without going insane because they’re stuck in their business, working in their business and not on their business. Thank you so much for listening today. Take care and be blessed Bye.
