Today we’re going to continue our conversation about the mental health side of running an online business.

I’ve talked about it a few times over the past few months because it’s so important. I’ve struggled with it for much of my life. Over the past eight years I’ve had some really not-so-great times mentally, emotionally, and physically.

This is something that we see more and more, especially with a lot of members who’ve joined our Accelerator coaching program. It’s a very common theme, and it’s something that’s not talked about a whole lot. It’s almost a taboo subject.

Well, I’m here to break that taboo and start talking about it more.

My guest today is Amenah Armand. She’s an expert on the mental health effects of hustle culture and burnout. Amenah’s the creator of Sane in the Membrane. She’s a holistic therapist, and she’s a nationally certified counselor.

We are unpacking the concept of burnout. We talk about the dangerous things that burnout can lead to, and we also have a really interesting conversation around the concepts of toxic gratitude and toxic positivity.

I really think you’re going to like this conversation with Amenah.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Three signs you’ve reached burnout
• What to do when you begin to experience burnout
• Strategies you can use to prevent burnout from happening
• Why gratitude and positivity can’t always fix the problem
• A simple way to streamline your day and be more productive

Links & Resources:

• James Schramko: Work Less, Make More
• 10XPRO
• DM me on Instagram
• Visit my YouTube channel
• The Art of Online Business clips
• The Art of Online Business website
• The Art of Online Business Podcast website
• Check out my Accelerator coaching program

*Disclosure: I only recommend products I use and love and all opinions expressed here are my own. This post may contain affiliate links that at no additional cost to you, I may earn a small commission.

Amenah Arman’s Links:

• Sane in the Membrane’s website
• Amenah Arman is on Instagram

Got A Question You Want Answered On the Podcast?

Ask your questions or let me know if there is a topic or guest you’d like to hear from in the comments below or click here to visit my contact page and submit your question there for a chance to be featured on one of my upcoming Q&A episodes.

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Other Episodes You’ll Enjoy:

How to Banish Burnout, with Helena Lucia

Are You Creating Your Business Around Your Life?

What’s NOT Working Right Now: Hustle

[00:00:00] Amenah:
When we think of self care, we think fluffy face masks, bath bombs, and stuff like that.

But as an entrepreneur, especially if you’re working from home, it’s so important to think about the rituals you have throughout your day. Even if it means you have to wake up super early, you need to establish a routine for yourself.

[00:00:55] Rick:
What’s up, my friends. Welcome back to The Art of Online Business podcast.

Rick Mulready here. Thank you, as always, for tuning in today. Hope all is going well, whatever you’re up to right now.

Today we’re going to continue our conversation about the mental health side of running an online business.

This is something that I want to talk more about here on the show. I’ve talked about it a few times over the past few months. The reason for that is it’s so important. I’ve struggled with it for much of my life, and had some really not-so-great times mentally, emotionally, and physically over the past eight years.

This is something that we see more and more, especially with a lot of members who’ve joined our Accelerator coaching program. This is a very common theme, and it’s something that’s not talked about a whole lot. I feel like it’s kind of taboo to talk about it.

Well, I’m here to break that taboo, and start talking more about it.

Before I jump into it with Amenah Arman, who is our special guest today—she’s amazing—I just want to share something one of our Accelerator members put into our group late in 2021. I have their permission. I’m going to keep it anonymous, but this is just an example of the types of things that are super common, but yet we don’t often realize what’s actually happening.

This person said I spent the day wine tastes. With my parents today. Thanks in large part to the Accelerator program, the focus that Rick has encouraged me to put on my own mental health and happiness is really starting to land with me. Thank you for helping me feel like I’m finally finding happiness and less stress.

That, when this person came into Accelerator, they had a, they were making a lot of revenue in their business. So from a revenue standpoint, they had a very successful business, right. But from a happiness and a stress level perspective, not so successful and quite common, right. We, if we are unhappy all the time, if it’s affecting our sleep, we’re stressed out all the time.

Just thinking. I don’t want to do this anymore. Right. I want to go back to when it was just easy. Well, this is very common and this is, this is one thing that we help you identify when you come into Accelerator and we start to unpack, right? Because it’s all about like, if we’re not, we’re not happy in our business and why are we doing it in the first place?

I’m not saying like, everything’s going to be rainbows and unicorns every day. I’m not saying that. But when we’re stressed out all the time, if we’re just never happy in our business, it’s something to be looked at. And this is very common again, especially with people who are making a lot of money in their business.

And so with that, if you are an established online course, An online coach or you’re a teacher entrepreneur, and you’re looking to take things to the next level and you want to personalize plan one-on-one coaching group coaching and a mastermind experience to help you take your business to the next level so that you’re creating more profit, more impact with less.

Then I would invite you to apply for the Accelerator coaching program. It’s ongoing. It’s it’s, it’s open enrollment. So, but it is application only. So if you’d like to do that, go to RickMulready.com/Accelerator, we’re going to help you optimize your systems and processes in your business, your sales and marketing and your mindset.

And for so many of you help you get unstuck and focusing on the right thing. In your business. So again, today, Amenah Armand is my guest. She is an expert in the mental health effects of hustle, culture, and burnout. And Amenah’s the creator of Sane in the Membrane. Love that name. She’s a holistic therapist and she’s a nationally certified counselor.

Specializing in helping the BiPAP community. And today we are unpacking the three characteristics of burnout. What does that look like? What you can be doing when you were feeling these things, or if you have already felt in you’re already in there, what are the types of things that you can be doing to help you get out of burnout or to avoid burnout? What we talk about, the dangerous things that, that burnout can lead. and we also had a really interesting conversation around this concept of toxic gratitude and toxic positivity. I really think you’re going to like this conversation here with Amenah.

So without further ado, let’s go hang out with her. no, you are in a very much needed profession now

[00:05:48] Amenah:
Right now

[00:05:49] Rick:
Entering, entering what are we? Year three. Two,

[00:05:56] Amenah:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Depending on how you’re looking at it.

[00:06:00] Rick:
Yeah, exactly. And you just mentioned that you have, you have pot, you have a positive outlook about 2020.

[00:06:09] Amenah:
Oh, man. Are you quoting me on that now? I it’s out there now.

[00:06:14] Rick:
Because I’m curious, I’m like, wait a minute. I want to hear, I want to hear this.

So I wa I do want to dive into that. You’ve, you’ve mentioned that you’ve had you’ve had COVID

[00:06:24] Amenah:
Yes, recently.

[00:06:26] Rick:
And you still can’t taste or smell things. We’re talking about coffee. You’re like, yeah, I just drink. I can’t taste it anyway. so welcome to the show. I’m really, really excited to have you on, and we’re going to be talking about the, mental health effects of hostile culture burnout.

All those types of things. This is a topic that we’ve been talking a lot more about here on the show because of the real thing. And so few people actually talk about it. And so many people on the flip side of that, so many people are experiencing it or have experienced it. I don’t know if I told you this before, when we chatted before, but I remember very clearly.

I’m pretty sure it was year two of the business. when we, my wife and I, Amy, we’re living in our first apartment here in San Diego. We moved down from LA super small apartment. I remember just having a complete breakdown one late afternoon, and remember sitting on a couch and Amy was next to me and I said, I don’t want to do this anymore.

And by this, I meant everything.

What am I doing? I was so unhappy. It was, the business was quote unquote successful. We’re making a lot of money, but I was working all the time and, I’ve had eczema my entire

Life and stress and all that stuff tends to flare it up. Never forget. I remember sitting there.

I was so uncomfortable in my skin, both literally and figuratively. And I was like, I don’t want to do this thing.

[00:08:04] Amenah:
Oh, my God.

[00:08:06] Rick:
That was a huge wake-up call. Right. And, it wasn’t the, it wouldn’t be the first time. I shouldn’t say that I hit burnout in the past eight years

[00:08:15] Amenah:
Familiar with it. This was familiar to you. You’re like, ah, I know what this is.

[00:08:20] Rick:
Well, at that point, I didn’t know. Cause that was the first time. It was probably, I’ve not that low, but I’ve hit two other points in the business over T over the last eight years were burned out. Like, what am I doing? And, but that time it was more like, what am I doing in the business right now? You know, before it was really deep and dark.

And again, that’s one big reason why I wanted to have you on here is because this is such a common. Thing that, you know, I get, I have Accelerators coming into the program where they’re first starting out. And the first thing they’re saying is like, I’m just burned out right now.

[00:08:58] Amenah:
Oh, yeah.

[00:08:59] Rick:
Their brain’s not working there.

Everything’s suffering. So, so again, welcome to the show. Before we go into anything further, let’s have you introduce yourself and let everybody know who you are and what you do.

[00:09:10] Amenah:
Okay. Thank you

For having me. I’m really excited to be. my name is Amenah Arman and I’m a holistic therapist. I run a private practice in Atlanta and the name of the private practice is seen in the membrane. and I take a non-traditional approach to therapy and I predominantly work with the BiPAP community and creatives.

[00:09:30] Rick:
What does holistic therapy mean?

[00:09:33] Amenah:
Huh. It means a lot of things. but the way I, I guess, identify with it is I try to stay away from labels. as much as I can. and so I take, what, when I say holistic, I mean body, mind, and soul. So there’s like a connection between all three. and I’m not, I’m simply looking at my, my client as a one dimension.

Oftentimes, when we think of, you know, when we think of therapy, we think in terms of labels, I have anxiety. I am anxiety, I’m depressed. I’m you know, so I kind of tried to stay away from that and look at the individual holistically.

[00:10:12] Rick:
So, is it, would it be more accurate from what you just said? So like I, now I feel like you’re going to correct me here, but that’s okay.

I feel like I’ve been challenged with I’ve suffered from truly from anxiety and worries since like, as far back as I’ve been able to pin it as far back as like seventh grade.

Whatever, whatever age that is. so is it more like I’m feeling anxiety

[00:10:37] Amenah:
I experience anxiety

[00:10:39] Rick:
I experienced anxiety.

[00:10:41] Amenah:
Of depression. I experienced, you know,

[00:10:43] Rick:
Yeah.

[00:10:43] Amenah:
Yeah, cause it ebbs and flows. It doesn’t necessarily have to be, I am the thing. Great. Cause oftentimes we personalize it and it becomes, you know, a part of who we are.

[00:10:55] Rick:
And does one ever move past that? Like could one ever, like we were talking to yesterday on, on an Accelerator call and not about this topic, we’re talking about mindset though, in terms of how people, how this person in particular was like views their business. And it was like, you know, the conversation was like, well, it doesn’t become like.

March 1st and I have a great mind. I’m a good leader. I have great. I have a great mindset, you know, and I’m a good leader. Boom, March 1st, you know, like this is just an ongoing journey,

[00:11:28] Amenah:
God.

[00:11:29] Rick:
Is it the same way? Because someone has told me and Reese and not recently in the past couple of years.

And I thought it was really interesting cause I had never sort of been able to put words to it.

And it was a coach I was working with at the time. And the coach said, you live with. a low level fight or flight every single day. And I was like, you know what? Right. And I wasn’t laughing at the time cause it was like, you know, but let’s talk about that because this is a very common thing where people are especially now, right.

We’ve you know, th this pandemic has been going on. It’s from mental side of it. It’s been very, very hard and especially.

Especially also in the entrepreneurial world for those of us running online businesses, for example, we often think like there’s uncertainty, right? I don’t know. I’ve heard people that had, you know, not so great years last year in 2021 in their business.

Other people had the best years ever.

And, but that unpredictability can lead to a lot of anxiety.

[00:12:40] Amenah:
Oh yeah.

[00:12:41] Rick:
How do we, how do we deal with that?

[00:12:43] Amenah:
So let’s just kind of like take a step back. I’m going to give the clinical definition of burnout, right? Cause it started there. So the clinical definition is it’s a psychological syndrome emerging as a prolonged response to chronic or interpersonal stressors on the. Right. So in other words, it happens when the demands that are placed on you or that, that are self-imposed right.

Oftentimes with entrepreneurs they’re, self-imposed demands that we place on ourselves. They exceed our capacity. So the reward of what we do doesn’t necessarily make the effort that we put into it, worth it. So that’s where existential, you know, those existential moments come in. Right? Like I could just imagine you sitting on the couch, right.

Talking to your wife, like, oh, I can’t do this anymore. What am I doing? I don’t even know that I want to do this. It can escalate into an existential crisis. So we all have, you know, daily life stressors and those are oftentimes, you know, it’s a normal part of life. You have your daily commute. Do you have family dysfunction?

You have bills the erosion of just mundane lifestyle. and these stressors are normal, they ebb and they flow. the stress that we’re concerned with is the ones that cause your body to go into that survival mode. Kind of like when you mentioned, you know, the thing to you, right.

You know, clearly you, you don’t have a lion chasing you. Right. So this, the dreadful work on Monday. Is what’s kind of causing your cortisol levels to skyrocket and over time uh that’s that, that state of flight or flight once it’s sustained, that’s what leads to burnout and eventually, you know, major illnesses or just a complete shift.

[00:14:28] Rick:
I want to go back. I want to go back to that and just one second, but I, can you go back to what you said? We said something about reward doesn’t matter. Like the effort, the expectation that we’re putting in key. Say that

[00:14:41] Amenah:
Yep. Yeah. So the reward of what we do. Meaning the interest like, it could be, intrinsic or extrinsic.

Oh God, what’s the word it’s escaping me. Is it intrinsic, extrinsic

[00:14:54] Rick:
Yeah.

[00:14:55] Amenah:
Okay. it doesn’t match, the, or doesn’t make the effort that you put into the work worth it.

And this could come in the form of, you know, say Yelp reviews, right? For restaurants. Right. So like, if they’re not getting a certain amount of reviews or if they are, if they feel like they’re not validated, you know, there’s, there’s something there that’s kind of, yeah. That doesn’t make it worth it.

Like, why are we open? Why are we serving these people? What are we doing in this community? Why are we, you know,

[00:15:28] Rick:
Gotcha. So with. W going back to what you’re talking about and on burnout with, with burnout, what are some of the things that, what are some of the characteristics that people really should be looking out for?

[00:15:40] Amenah:
Yeah. So there’s three major characteristics. and this is, this is how like burnout manifests. the first one is emotional exhaustion. And it shows up as a feeling of, like you can’t complete simple tasks. Oftentimes there’s procrastination change in appetite, change in sleep, sleeping habits, losing motivation.

You’ll hear this, you know, and, and, and here, like, Tidbits of like what you, what you would potentially hear someone saying that, you know, doesn’t know that they’re burnt out. Like I’m so tired. I’m just exhausted. I’m wearing myself thin where myself that. Right. the second one is, cynicism and depersonalization.

So questioning whether what you do even matters, right? Feeling like you’re watching yourself do the thing without being. without being in your life, like life is happening to you and you’re unable to see yourself in it. And with this one, people will say things like, I just feel like I’m going through the motions.

Something is off. I don’t feel like myself. And we hear that. We hear it all the time. We just don’t know how to, you know, code it basically. And that’s, that’s what it is. and the third one is, feelings of ineffective. You know, when you question whether the work is enough, is it sufficient? am I actually contributing to society?

What does this mean to me? And people will say things like, what’s the point. I forgot why I’m doing this thing. Like I put so much effort, right? I’m in a place where I shouldn’t be happy, but I am not. What’s the point. and that’s when the, you know, the big meaning-making existential question comes about, right? yeah. I worked so hard to get here. I should be grateful for this place that I’m in right now. Money’s flowing. Things are doing well, but I’m just not satisfied here. And I don’t know why.

[00:17:49] Rick:
I’m smiling as you say that, because I’m like, well, maybe I’ve been burnt out more than I realized sober over eight years now. Cause these are kind of common. These are common things. And you mentioned that last thing you said, I took a note. I should be grateful people. We have a lot of should. In, you know, running an online

[00:18:11] Amenah:
Oh yeah.

[00:18:12] Rick:
To talk more about that.

[00:18:13] Amenah:
And this whole, you know, like toxic gratitude and don’t get me wrong. I think gratitude is a beautiful practice to have throughout your day. I really recommend it. I highly recommend it, but it’s not something that will get you out of. Like you can recognize that, you know, you did put in a lot of effort, right?

It’s a get to where you are right now, but something is off and it’s okay to kind of take a step back and examine what it is. That’s off like gratitude. Isn’t going to get you out of burnout. And oftentimes, right. There’s like this. I don’t know if you’ve heard of the term. What is it? Toxic, positivity.

I feel like there is, there is this like push to, to hype gratitude in a way that it can, you know, it could potentially, yeah.

Just get you out of anything. Like if you’re grateful, then you know, then you’ll get out of this. It’s your, it’s you not being grateful that puts you in this place of burnout, right? Oftentimes you’ll hear people say. And those closest to us, right? Like I’ve been running my business now it’s going to be three years.

And year two is when it happened to me as well, where I’m like, what am I doing? What is this? Like, impacting people’s lives, but it’s doing nothing for me. What, what am I getting out of this? And, my parents actually told me they’re like, but you wanted this. You shouldn’t be grateful for where you are right now.

You worked hard, be grateful. Like you’re unable to see the work that you’ve done. And that’s not necessarily the healthiest thing to say to someone.

[00:19:46] Rick:
W

[00:19:48] Amenah:
Be grateful because it’s not addressing the root. Right. The root is something’s got to change. Something’s going to be changed. And you know, this is, this might sound controversial, but I’ll go ahead and say it it’s like high five that you feel and that you could identify that you’re burned out.

It’s actually a good thing. It’s a sign. Yeah, that you can identify it, right. It’s a sign that something’s got to change. Right. And I would be more worried as a clinician, if a person was numb to the situation. Right. So think of burnout as you know, it’s your personal alarm system going off. And so it’s a good thing that your personal alarm system is intact and working.

Because if it wasn’t, again, clinically, we would be more worried when an individual is numb to that situation. And if they continue to dismiss the subtle signs, right. Cause burnout could potentially lead to depression.

[00:20:48] Rick:
And now what just came up for me, as you were saying that, and you mentioned before, when you were talking about. Yeah about your practice and, you know, holistic the holistic perspective, is that putting a quote label on something?

[00:21:04] Amenah:
What?

[00:21:04] Rick:
When we say, oh, they’re burned out, or somebody has burned.

[00:21:10] Amenah:
I don’t know that I would consider that as a, as a label because I, it’s not in the, you know, diagnostic, like it’s not in the DSM-V. and it’s not necessarily something that you’re, you know, that your doctor can give you medication for. Right. It’s not like take this pill unless they mistake it for, you know, oh, it sounds like you’re clinically depressed.

I’m going to go ahead and give you, you know,

[00:21:34] Rick:
Right.

[00:21:34] Amenah:
This antidepressant. Yeah.

[00:21:36] Rick:
What, what also came up for me is for me personally, burnout sounds big.

Right? So if somebody is feeling that the emotional exhaustion, for example, or that feeling of ineffectiveness that you described, and they’re identifying that they, they understand that they’re, they feel that they’re feeling that if that makes sense, but for them to, I’m just putting my album, just going to say, if I were to think that.

And I’m like, oh, I’m burnt out. Like, that feels big. Like something major needs to change or something is majorly wrong. I tend to catastrophize things. So, so it like, can you, can you speak to that because is it as big a deal or is it just the fact that, oh, let’s like, great. We’re identifying how we’re feeling.

And we’re putting some, like, we’re kind of understanding what it is. Is it a big deal or is it more so like, oh, I’m, I’m understanding what I’m feeling now. I get to do something about it.

[00:22:46] Amenah:
I don’t know that it’s a one size fits all. I think it’s a, you know, I think it depends, right. Like it definitely is. I don’t know that, I wouldn’t, I don’t know that I would say it’s a big deal. I don’t know that I would, you know, belittle it either. Right. so I feel like I’m, I take more of a, it’s a part of life.

It happens. So now that you’ve identified it, let’s take a step back and examine the narrative. What is it that you’re telling yourself about the priorities that you have? You know, a lot of the times we’re attached to the stories that we tell ourselves about what we do, right? Like you were attached to what was the business that, that you felt like you were burnt out in?

Or,

[00:23:31] Rick:
This business right here.

[00:23:32] Amenah:
Oh, it’s oh, it’s this right here right now.

[00:23:34] Rick:
Yeah, I was, this is back in 2015. I want to say. And at the time I was just teaching Facebook ads. So yeah, at that point I had like two courses, two online courses and I was just working all the

[00:23:52] Amenah:
Yep. Yeah.

And then oftentimes the narrative with that is like, We’ll hear people say like, this is what it takes to be a business owner, or, you know, this is, this is, what it takes to be successful, no pain, no gain. Right. Blood, sweat, And tears. Like it’s, it’s become so normalized and championed, right.

That, burnout is kind of just like continuously knocking at your door and saying, no, no, no, no, no, no. You’ve got, you’ve got to take a step back and switch it up. Change. Yup.

[00:24:23] Rick:
And to add to that, the narrative of. If I’m not working hard, or if I’m not working the longer, you know, we’re, we’re equating time to money or how hard I’m working to the amount of money that I’m able to make or that I’m going to make.

Can you come, can we kind of unpack that a little bit, because this is something that like I struggled with for years, and I know a lot of, you know, our Accelerator students, this is very common.

[00:24:50] Amenah:
Yep.

And this is this, connects to the first conversation we had when I asked you.

Can you really, what was the question that I asked you? I was like, can you really do more with less time? Like, can you act, I’m like, do you actually believe in your mission statement? That’s on your site because that is claim.

Right.

[00:25:12] Rick:
Yeah.

[00:25:12] Amenah:
And so it’s right up your, you know, it’s right up your alley.

I guess what made you, yeah. Like what, what made you kind of come up with that? And would you say that burnout led you to think that way.

[00:25:24] Rick:
Yes for sure. And I certainly didn’t come up with it. It’s just, you know, one of my mentors and coaches and good friends, James Schramko, he wrote a book, work less, make more. And, you know, I think, I think it really. I mean hit quote unquote mainstream with the whole four hour workweek thing.

And I think that was really misunderstood about what was actually what was, what the actual message was. But anyway, yeah, I needed to make a change because, and it wasn’t after a year or two, either this went on for, I mean, probably four and a half years, where, you know, I, it was. My brain was equating more, more, more work, longer, you know, bigger

[00:26:14] Amenah:
And what was the end goal? Like that’s, that’s what, when I say narrative like that, is

[00:26:20] Rick:
Yeah.

[00:26:20] Amenah:
What is the end goal? Like what was the five-year

[00:26:23] Rick:
Seven, seven figure business

[00:26:25] Amenah:
Seven figure.

[00:26:26] Rick:
Fell. It was with, with no and no context or intention behind it, other than that’s what I saw. And heard as I’ve made it, quote unquote, I’m successful now, quote unquote, when I hit the seven figure mark and we hit it, we hit it in four years. I’m very grateful for that. Very fortunate to be able to have done that, but then I hit it and this sounds weird, but like, I was like, okay, now what you

[00:26:57] Amenah:
Yup. Yup. There’s like a what’s next. What’s next? What’s the next thing I’ve got to chase it. I have to, you know, it’s not here and now it’s there, right?

[00:27:08] Rick:
Yeah,

[00:27:09] Amenah:
It’s like an illusion.

[00:27:10] Rick:
Yup. High achievers, right. We just keep chasing more and more and more. And then in year five and six, my revenue dept and what I figured out through. Through help of, of therapy and coaching and all that stuff was like, my brain was subconsciously sabotaging because it was saying it being my brain was talking to me.

It was saying, you know what, in order to do, you needed to, in order to hit the seven figures, your mental health need to suffer your physical health, your relationships, all this other stuff. So in order to do that, you have to go through this, all these things.

[00:27:53] Amenah:
Yup. Yup.

[00:27:55] Rick:
And then it was like the under being able to understand that, unpack that, understand that that’s actually not

[00:28:02] Amenah:
Oh yeah.

[00:28:03] Rick:
Then things started to turn around, but like, it took me a while.

[00:28:07] Amenah:
Oh, yeah. It’s like that whole again, it’s like we championed this toxic work culture and it pervades every part of your life. Like, it’s not like it just stays in, oh my God. I’m burnt out. I’m procrastinating. I haven’t reached out to the client or I haven’t met the deadline or I haven’t, you know, it goes into, I forgot my kid’s birthday.

I forgot my anniversary. I can’t pick up, you know, The thing for lunch that I had to get, or, you know, whatever it is, like, it, it, it really, you know, kind of seeps into every aspect of your life.

[00:28:42] Rick:
Yeah. I’ll have things to do, like something super simple. I dunno, whatever, like pick something up

[00:28:49] Amenah:
Oh yeah.

[00:28:50] Rick:
And I’ll think of it. And then like two minutes later it’s gone is completely gone.

So why do we celebrate this? Why does, why do we in, in society, like why do we celebrate this?

[00:29:02] Amenah:
Toxic work culture. Yeah. What is that about? Ah, I, I don’t have the answer to that one,

[00:29:09] Rick:
I was going to say that is spoken, like spoken like a therapist right there. Like putting it

[00:29:14] Amenah:
But the affects Write of toxic work culture, but why we do it? I don’t even, yeah. And it’s, you know, and we see, you know, and it, it just feels like it’s become so normalized. Like you see it on Instagram, you see it on Twitter, you see it on, you know, like it’s a constant reiteration of the same thing, blood, sweat, and tears.

I worked hard to get where I’m at. I sacrificed everything and it’s, and the underlying belief is that time is not abundant. Money is really hard to attain. You have to put in, you know, a certain amount of. Energy and work and you have to make sacrifices. And those sacrifices unfortunately include mental health, your

[00:29:55] Rick:
Yeah.

[00:29:56] Amenah:
Soul, your, you know, your being basically.

[00:30:00] Rick:
Yeah.

So you

Establish. If it goes unchecked, if you

[00:30:05] Amenah:
Yup.

[00:30:06] Rick:
It can lead to depression

[00:30:07] Amenah:
Oh yeah. Yeah. And there are times where, A general doctor would just, diagnose them with depression. Yeah. They’ll just, you know, we’ll give them an antidepressant because it does sound a lot like depression.

So it just, yeah. Yeah, it depends. But, if it does go unchecked. Yeah. I mean, it could lead to, it could lead to a lot of things.

[00:30:29] Rick:
Such as.

[00:30:31] Amenah:
Definitely the first one is depression. and then the other one is, you know, depersonalization where again, where you constantly feel Like your life is happening and you’re just a spectator like you’re watching from the from the outside. you have people complaining about, auto-immune disorders. Ending relationships, you know, failed businesses. Like it all, it, it kind of trickles down into like the, the greatest fear and the greatest fear is I’m going to lose this thing. I’m going to fail at this thing. and we ended up manifesting that as dark as that sounds.

[00:31:12] Rick:
So what do we do instead? Because I’m smiling again because common fun. That that I have, right?

[00:31:22] Amenah:
With that? I mean, yeah.

[00:31:24] Rick:
Oh, a hundred percent because I’m, you know, I’m law of attraction type of thing. Like if we’re thinking this thing for long enough, it’s gonna, you know, it can manifest. I literally had this conversation with somebody yesterday for me personally.

And it was like just kind of, you know, getting starting the year. And I had a hard time getting into the swing of things, you know, after taking a couple weeks. And when for, for me, what happened, like I can spiral really quickly. My brain can spiral really quickly. but let’s talk about that as far as yeah, we think that, well, that’s another thing too, is we work so long and quote hard because we think if we don’t all this is going to go

[00:32:09] Amenah:
Yeah.

[00:32:10] Rick:
Or all this is going to stop working.

[00:32:13] Amenah:
And the thing is it does go away. Your life no longer. You’re no longer a being, right? Because you don’t have time for friends. You don’t have time for family. You don’t have time for being in your life. You’re not actually enjoying the thing you’re doing anymore.

[00:32:30] Rick:
Yeah.

[00:32:31] Amenah:
In a sense, you, you know, you’re, you’re not there really.

[00:32:36] Rick:
So what do we do? What do we do When we’re, experienced? When we’re, if we’re checking these three boxes.

You know of emotional exhaustion, cynicism and depersonalization feelings of ineffectiveness. And we’re like, yeah, okay. Burnout is here.

[00:32:51] Amenah:
Yup.

[00:32:51] Rick:
Or I’ve been feeling burnt out for a while. And now I’m just recognizing that that’s actually what’s going on.

What do we do with.

[00:32:58] Amenah:
So the first thing is again, identifying it. Right. and that’s a that’s a beautiful place to start. And then the second step would be, taking a step back and examining what’s not working. Right. Cause it’s not necessarily the entire business. That’s not working for you. Right. It may be building that gives you that amount of stress or it may be, you know, it just depends on, where you think the stress is coming from.

Because for the most part, I mean, I can, I can attest to that as a business owner, like burnout for me is related to billing. I hate having to be a debt collector and that that’s not what I, you know, that’s not what I signed up for. so if you can pinpoint the aspect of work life, that’s not working great.

And, and the aspects of home life that aren’t flowing. and once you identify that, that’s when you can make the changes, but to just sit back and be like, ah, I don’t know, I might need to change careers, or I might need to start another business or I might need. That’s not necessarily. Yeah. I wouldn’t recommend that. That’s not necessarily it.

[00:34:05] Rick:
I love that and what my brain went, just went here right there is like, but yeah. Now people think I CA I don’t have time to slow down to stop and do that sort of audit of what’s going on.

[00:34:17] Amenah:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Consider it as a life audit. And if you don’t, I mean, okay, so you might not have time, but you’re going to have one of those situations where you’re sitting on the couch and you’re like, where are these tears coming from? What’s happening right now to my body.

Like, ah, the cortisol is taking over it like.

Fight or flight got me in survival mode. I’m no longer thriving. I’m not creating what’s happening. Right. So you, you are going to be forced to, to have that life audit. If you don’t take a step back and yeah.

[00:34:48] Rick:
Yeah.

Are there other things that we can do on a day-to-day basis to, like from a holistic level?

I don’t want to oversimplify it, or maybe that’s the answer of like the common things that people think about, like meditation or or just getting outside. Can you talk more about that?

[00:35:05] Amenah:
Yes. Oh, go ahead and oversimplify it. Those are perfect.

I mean, you really need to fit, you know, when we think of self care, we think fluffy like face masks and bath bombs and stuff. But as an entrepreneur, especially if you’re, you know, working from home, whatever, whatever business you’re running, it is so important to think about the rituals you have throughout your day, whatever they are, even if it means that you have to wake up.

Super early before you get the kids to school before you take your morning calls or whatever it is, as long as you can establish a routine for yourself, if it’s 5, 10, 15 minutes, you know, what does that, morning miracle rituals he has like, he doesn’t, he does such a beautiful job. rock. Is it rod L rod or what’s it

[00:35:51] Rick:
Hello,

[00:35:52] Amenah:
How, how our idea. Yeah, he does a really good job at like, what is it? He breaks it up five minutes at a time, right? Five minutes of journaling, five minutes of physical, physical activity, five minutes of spirituality. And we All need to tick those boxes of, self care. so yeah, I would definitely go the route of simplifying it and whatever it is that you feel like, whatever it is that you feel like works for you is, is what you should. So necessarily like a one size fits. All right.

[00:36:22] Rick:
And I’m glad you, I’m glad you mentioned just that right there. Cause I did that for a long time and then I started hearing some other people talk about the fact that it’s like, you just have to do what’s right for you. If you’re not doing eight things in the morning, it doesn’t mean that you’re failing.

You know, you’re not starting the day on a good note, right? If you haven’t done this, this, this, and this. Is it, I mean, could it really be as simple as, okay. I’m going to sit and meditate for 10 minutes with, you know, Headspace or calm or whatever it is.

[00:36:58] Amenah:
Yes, it can be that simple five to 10 minutes. Definitely.

[00:37:04] Rick:
And then throughout the day, cause like one thing that I have a hard time with where like I get into something, I have a hard time stopping and I then like, What’s that.

[00:37:18] Amenah:
So surprised.

[00:37:21] Rick:
And then I realized, like I have a sit-stand desk here. I’m like, oh, I have, you know, I’ve been sitting for way too long right now.

I’ve been in this right now.

Like what are some, are there some things that we should be thinking of? Is it, is it again simplifying it? Is it as simple as like getting up and going for a walk around the block for five minutes or something like that?

[00:37:41] Amenah:
Did I forget to eat? How long has it been since I last ate, do I have my water bottle next to me? Do I have my snacks? Have I checked in with a friend? Have I laughed in the past 12 hours?

[00:37:57] Rick:
I liked

[00:37:57] Amenah:
The last time I sent a text message saying, yo, what’s up?

When was the last time I allowed someone to check in on me? When was the last time I actually checked in on myself? Right? Like I personal note, I have clients ask me how I’m doing. Like, they’ll start call, I’ll start the call. And they’re like, how are you doing?

I was like, I don’t know how I’m doing. Give me a minute. Let me see, because I’m not, I’m often not asked that. Right. it’s always about. You know, the other person on the other side. So, checking in. Yeah.

Checking in with yourself, like what’s happening for me right now? What’s coming up for me. How am I feeling on January 11th at 1 52? Right. Like whatever,

[00:38:34] Rick:
Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:35] Amenah:
Yeah, I definitely would take a simple simplify it and it’s not a one size fits all.

[00:38:42] Rick:
Yeah. Cause if we don’t what we’ve been talking about here today. The path that, where, you know, that is celebrated

[00:38:52] Amenah:
Oh, yeah.

[00:38:52] Rick:
Doing us so much more harm than good. And it’s like, you put it really well. It’s not just our business and it’s affecting, it’s affecting our entire life.

[00:39:00] Amenah:
Oh yeah. Yeah. And then going back to, and being reminded of your, why, why are you doing the thing we need to be reminded of? Consistently, why am I doing this? What w how, how was I connected to this before? And I’m not connected to it now? Where, where did yeah. Where did this disconnect come from? Right.

Cause you know, what we do oftentimes, you should approach it like you would a relationship, right? Like you were connected at one point when you first started this business,

[00:39:38] Rick:
Yeah.

[00:39:39] Amenah:
Coming from?

[00:39:42] Rick:
I really liked that because I really liked how you said pinpointing and looking at the different areas, whether it’s your business, whether it’s how you’re doing your business, how it’s you’re, you’re showing up your relationships, your health, whatever. It might be like physical pinpoints again, and saying, okay, what are a couple of things that I can do to make some change and test it out?

[00:40:06] Amenah:
Oh, yeah. yeah. And snare gradual. Yep. Definitely.

[00:40:09] Rick:
Yeah,

[00:40:09] Amenah:
Yeah. Start gradual.

[00:40:11] Rick:
I can talk about this with you for hours. I th this is this topic is, is so it’s near, near to me because I’ve been through it several times as we’ve established here today. Probably more than I thought. and again, it’s like so many people are experiencing this and not even being, they’re not aware that this actually happening.

And so that’s the goal of, of here today is. Let’s get this, you know, let’s help more people become aware of what’s actually going on and then what they can do to, to, to help with this. I want to make sure that people can connect with you. I know you have a new site being designed and coming out where, what are the best places to, for people to connect with you?

[00:40:52] Amenah:
Sane in the

[00:40:55] Rick:
I love that name.

[00:40:56] Amenah:
Then my IG is also @sane.in.the.membrane, but it’s, I have sane.in.the.membrane just because of the IG did that funny thing to me. but,

[00:41:06] Rick:
All right. Cool. Sane.in.the.membrane. And then also saneinthemembrane.com. I love it. I’ll link it up in the show notes for today’s episode. Amenah. Thank you so much for coming on here and talking about this with us. I really appreciate it.

[00:41:23] Amenah:
Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed this.

[00:41:26] Rick:
Okay. For years I’ve been looking for one tool that can handle all of the marketing things that we do in our business and handle the sales aspect of the business.

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Alright, my friend, thank you, as always, for tuning in today. Super appreciate you.

Until next time, be well, and I’ll talk to you soon.