For today’s episode I’m excited to bring you part two of my interview with Kim Wenzel.

If you’ve not yet heard part one, go back and listen to part one. It’s going to make today’s episode make way more sense if you’ve listened to last week’s show. I broke it up into two parts because there is so much greatness in my conversation with Kim.

We’re going to have a discussion around the question: are you doing things in your business because you want to do them, or doing them because you think it’s going to help your business? There’s a fine line there,  so we’re going to talk about how to walk that fine line.

We talk about why the more financial success that you see in your business, the harder it tends to be to tap into what you want—what makes you happy. We spend a lot of time today talking about defining success. Why you have to take the time to define what success looks like for you.

We also talk about how people make decisions. Your customers will make decisions about working with you based on how you show up in your market. There’s a direct correlation between how you feel about your business and how other people feel about it.

Many of us, as our business becomes more successful, lose that initial “fire” we had. We lose the happiness and the joy that we once felt when we started our business.

Today’s show is about getting that back and giving you permission to focus on what makes you happy.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why it’s important to celebrate your successes
• A big impediment to creativity and what to do about it
• The paradox of success and clarity of purpose
• What to do when you don’t know the next step for your business
• Why giving yourself permission to say “no” can be a struggle

Links & Resources:

• Part I of my interview with Kim Wensel
• Riverside.fm
• Notion
• DM me on Instagram
• Visit my YouTube channel
• The Art of Online Business clips
• The Art of Online Business website
• The Art of Online Business Podcast website
• Check out my Accelerator coaching program

*Disclosure: I only recommend products I use and love and all opinions expressed here are my own. This post may contain affiliate links that at no additional cost to you, I may earn a small commission.

Kim Wensel’s Links:

• Kim’s website
• Follow Kim on Instagram
• Pattern of Purpose
• Pattern of Purpose on Instagram

Got A Question You Want Answered On the Podcast?

Ask your questions or let me know if there is a topic or guest you’d like to hear from in the comments below or click here to visit my contact page and submit your question there for a chance to be featured on one of my upcoming Q&A episodes.

Please support the podcast by giving an honest Rating/Review for the show on iTunes!

Other Episodes You’ll Enjoy:

(Part I) How to Reduce Churn and Keep Members Engaged, with Diana Tower (Membership Series)

(Part II) How to Reduce Churn and Keep Members Engaged, with Diana Tower (Membership Series)

14 Thoughts On What’s Ahead for 2022

[00:00:00] Kim:
Remember back to the very beginning; it was actually not so hard to get your first glimpse of success, but the more time goes on the harder it seems to get to that next level.

We start adopting a pattern of, “This worked for this person, or I heard this thing works.” What’s happening underneath the surface is we’re learning to listen externally much more than we’re listening internally.

[00:00:55] Rick:
Alright. Welcome back to the show, my friends. Rick Mulready here, and today I’m so pumped to bring you part two of my interview with Kim Wenzel.

If you’ve not yet heard part one, definitely go back and listen to part one first. It’s going to make today’s episode make way more sense if you’ve listened to last week’s part one.

So again, if you haven’t listened to that yet, it’s just last week’s episode with Kim Wensel. It is called “How to Focus On What Makes YOU Happy In Your Business (and Still Make Money).”

Today is part two of that discussion. I broke it up into two parts because there is just so much greatness in my conversation with Kim. We’re going to have a discussion around: are you doing things in your business because you really want to do them, or doing them because you think it’s going to help your business? There’s a fine line there. So we’re going to talk about how to walk that fine line.

We talk about the more financial success that you see in your business, the harder it tends to be to tap into what you really want—what really makes you happy. We spend a lot of time today talking about defining success. Why you have to take the time to define what success looks like for you. Otherwise you’re just spinning your wheels.

I talk a lot about building the business that’s right for you, not building another person’s business. Don’t build somebody else’s business. The clearer that you are on what success means to you, the happier you’re going to be in your business.

We also talk about how people make decisions. How your potential customers will make decisions on whether to work with you based on how you show up in your market. Because there’s a direct correlation between how you are feeling about your business and how other people feel about it.

So many of us as our business becomes more successful. We lose that fire. We lose the, you know, what, the happiness and the joy. That we once felt when we started our business. And this is about getting that back and giving you permission to essentially, even though you don’t need it, give you the permission to, you know, what, when you focus on what makes you happy.

That is where success is going to come from. And this is not a fluffy thing. This is not like, you know, do what you love and, and everybody will come as a result. No, this is a business that we’re building, not a hobby. And so we’re going to break all that down here in part two with. When sold now, before we dive into it with Kim, we are accepting applications right now for our Accelerator coaching program.

This is a one-on-one coaching group, coaching and mastermind experience for established online course creators and online coaches. And by established, I mean, you’re doing at least a hundred K a year in revenue from your online business, and you want to take things to the next. But you’re not really sure what next steps to be taking.

You’re likely overwhelmed in your business. We are all about helping you increase your profit, increase your impact with less hustle, because we’re already doing so much in our business are already right. The whole hustle culture. I’ve talked about a lot recently here on the show. It’s so toxic, you know, that’s not necessary, meaning you do not need to be working a whole bunch of hours in order to have a very, very.

Successful business. We actually talk about that here today in my interview with Kim. So if you are interested in learning more and applying it’s application, only for our Accelerator coaching program, go to RickMulready.com/Accelerator.

Alright. My friends without further ado, here’s part two with Kim Wencel.

[00:04:53] Kim:
I mean, I worked with a high level coach this year and it was the first time that somebody had my attention and said, I was talking about what clients wanted me to do or what, perspective clients said that they were looking for. And she looked at me straight in my eyes on the screen and said, Kim, I’m really not interested in what anybody else is looking for.

I want to know from you, what do you want to be doing? And I was like,

[00:05:24] Rick:
Yeah

[00:05:26] Kim:
I don’t know. I think I don’t want to do anything cause I was just so burnt out at that point. And that was the beginning, the beginning of the end, but you know, like the unraveling of whoa, whoa, whoa. It’s such an amazing thing that as an entrepreneur, I can decide, I want to do something and I can go after it.

And it’s such a harmful thing that I can be an entrepreneur and see something and go after it because we rarely take the time to acknowledge what we’ve accomplished. And so one of, one of my master’s degree, one of my master’s degrees,

[00:06:05] Rick:
One of my degrees, is amazing by the way, like that’s awesome.

[00:06:10] Kim:
I went to school for social work. I’ll just put it that way. And a lot of what we talked about was celebrating successes and acknowledging wins both with ourselves, but also with clients because. Sometimes just acknowledging how far you’ve come can be the difference between being able to keep going and being stuck.

And we don’t do that enough. I would say most people don’t do that enough, but especially creatives or ideas, people are visionaries. However you want to categorize yourself because it’s almost like, think about the last time that you had an exciting idea for something that you wanted to sell. So you take the notes and in your notes app, and you write things down in your notebook and you’re like, this is how it’s going to be.

And if you’re anything like me, you start putting a skeleton of like, here’s email one, that’s going to go out and then email two. And you have, it’s just like, you can’t keep up with the ideas that are flowing and then something gets in the way and then something else. And you come back to the idea and you’re no longer excited about it.

But you feel like you have to do it. It’s kind of like the book that you open up and you feel like, okay, well I’m halfway through, so I should just finish it even though you don’t like it. And so that’s the thing, like we get to decide, but we feel like we’re in chains to all of our ideas. And we don’t take that time to say, wait, wait, wait, wait, w was I excited about this?

And I think when we first talked, it was that realization that someone that supports me, she said, are you excited about this? Because it’s actually exciting to you? Or are you excited about this? Because it’s exciting to someone else and being able to disentangle those two things and recognize, okay, so somebody could be.

I vibe off of other people’s energy a, lot. I’m an extrovert. I love being in community with people. So it’s really easy for me to just, if I have another passionate person on the other end, we start going. It’s so easy for me to keep going and to be able to, to stop and actually ask myself, wait a second. Do I really want to be doing this? Or does it just feel good to have this thought partner who wants to be doing something together? Whether it’s a a collaborator, whether it’s a client, whether it’s a customer, whoever it is, and yeah, that’s too sure.

No, I would say podcast interview energy probably matters the most,

[00:08:53] Rick:
Oh yeah, totally.

[00:08:55] Kim:
And it’s a one-time thing

[00:08:57] Rick:
Well, who knows? back on the show. So a lot of what you’re talking about and we keep alluding to it is just being true to ourselves, allowing ourselves to be true to ourselves and focusing on what we want to be doing well, what makes us happy? What we. Well, we like, and when often, like when you like what you just said, I think you put it perfectly.

You’re like, does this make me happy? Or am I doing this to make somebody else happy? And I think another way to look at that also is like, am I doing this because I really want to do it, or am I doing it? Because I think it’s going to help my business. And oftentimes when we look at it through that lens, people make the decision to do it because they think It’s going to help their business. but yet it’s not, it doesn’t light them up. It’s not something that they’re really passionate about doing.

[00:09:57] Kim:
Yeah. I mean, I was having a conversation this week with a group that I’m a small group that I’m part of a coaching group that I’m part of. And one of the things we were talking about is when you first start your business, If you can remember back to the very beginning, it was actually not so hard to get your first glimpse of success, but then the more time goes on the harder it seems to get to that next level.

And so we start adopting, well, this worked for this person, or I heard this thing works and what’s happening underneath the surface is we’re learning to listen externally much more than we’re listening internally. And it’s, I would, I would even argue that the more successful that you, well, I’m not going to say successful.

You’ve become, because again, it’s how you define success, but the more financial success that you’ve seen, the harder it is to tap into what you really want. And it’s harder to even understand what you really want, because again, There’s this thought of, well, this is what I’ve done to, to bring me success.

I don’t know if I can believe that if I turn my attention to the thing that I really want to be doing, I can match this. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve talked to recently who have felt trapped in their business. And like there’s no way out. So the, they just maintain.

[00:11:27] Rick:
Yeah. And I’ve to be completely open and honest. I talked a little bit about it here in the show this year, that right there, what you just described, Kim is something that I’ve gone through. This year on a personal level and the business where just a variety of things happen, we’ll just say, and that I decided to change course, and that changing course was a way from something that helped that financial success.

And it was like, oh man, am I going to be able to, like, it was I knew it was the right thing to do, but there was a huge, like, I felt this huge conflict inside. And I think it was, I’d love to get your thoughts on this. I think it was easier for me to do that because I’ve already gained a level of success in the business where I wasn’t worried so much about, oh, it’s things are going to be

Fine. You know what I mean? Because this is so important to me, but if someone’s early on in their business, they might not make that same decision because they’re like, you know what, this over here, which is helping me is not really aligning with me anymore. However, I kind of quote unquote, need it in order to be successful. What are your, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:12:53] Kim:
Yeah, I think that there is some real truth to understanding what you need to be able to pay for your life at a minimum. And I think we have to be willing to look at okay. Let’s write down what my costs are every single month. And I’m talking literally, literally the minimum, right? What does childcare costs?

What does my rent or mortgage costs? What, and do I have another source of income, but we have to be really real about what do we need to cover the costs enough each month? And when you’re first starting something, especially if you don’t have another source of income, you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do to make the money come in.

But I think what we don’t do enough is the second that we make, that we set the higher goal to the nice to have. And, and then we start investing, at least in my experience, I invest I’m I say yes, very frequently. If I can, if I can convince myself just enough that this is going to be worth it, I’m like, yes, of course I will do this thing.

What then happens is we’re trapped in that. Well, my expenses are this much and if I want to pay myself, so I’ll take you through what I did this year. If that’s helpful.

[00:14:17] Rick:
Sure. Yeah.

[00:14:18] Kim:
I had been full-time for, you know, I guess this unraveling started happening around April may and my income was still kind of all over the place because I went from projects to then I had a big retainer and then some other projects, and I still haven’t really figured out seasonality for my business quite yet.

Summer’s always a little slow, but. I’d experienced burnout enough to know, okay, I’m really headed towards it now. And I need to ask for help. And the person that I ended up going to was a person that I was actually really envious of. I was really envious of her business. I’m like, she can’t be back. Good.

Come on. Now. She doesn’t even mark it. There is no way. So the, let me just check her out for myself. And of course now I attribute so much of what I’ve gotten from that, which is a whole nother story, but I basically had to make the decision to not take on any clients from may through at least the summer.

And I knew that we were, I mean, there are many factors that went into that decision. We were selling our house, so we weren’t going to ha I was going to live with my mom until our new houses ready. but that meant no mortgage. the kids were at home, there were camps here and there, but it provided that cushion where I could say, okay, I know I’ve got to figure this out because if I can’t even say what I want to be doing, there’s no way that I can move forward in this business in a way that’s sustainable.

And life-giving, I mean, honestly, at this point I was, I was so tired, the constant thing that had been going through my mind again and again, and again was the phrase I’m just so exhausted. That’s the only thing I kept saying. And it wasn’t, I’m tired, sleepy. It’s, I’m exhausted in my bones. And I said to my husband, I was like, maybe I should do. Work for someone else. I’m just tired of making all the decisions, making all the decisions for my business, making all the decisions for my clients, making all the decisions for our family. It’s just too much. And so I decided, all right, I need space. I got, I don’t know, seven weeks off when I had my kids and I was building a business at the same time.

I hosted my first retreat two weeks after I quit my job. Like I, I never gave myself space to reorient. So I took the summer and I did a lot of really deep work. And at the beginning of the summer, I remember it was Memorial day weekend, and I bought all of these, like the making of Coco Chanel and top creative directors.

Just thinking if I read enough, I could just absorb that inspiration and like click it. It would all come back. And I took a long time. It took a long time for me to be able to convince myself that I had built a business around things that I did really, really well, but I actually, it was very hard. It was intensive.

It took a lot of energy to do. And so I had to actually believe that there was something else that I could offer that would. Be so exhausting because where I had gotten myself was in this belief system, that this is what it takes to get to this level and to get to the next level, I’m either going to have to hire and train and oversee and do the work, or just skyrocket my prices.

And there was nothing in the middle that I could see. There was no third way. It was like the two things that I’m aware of. So, I mean, there’s a lot that happened during that time, but I had to have that time away from my to-do list from the client deliverables to actually look at, oh, this other thing that I think I might want to do, that could be a possibility.

And I know I can’t see exactly how everything’s connected right now. I also don’t need this to come to me tomorrow. And just for the first time ever giving myself permission to have that space and not know because Rick I’ve lived most of my life, six months, 12 months in the future. And so there was almost the inability to just be where I am today, because then there’s the fear of like, where’s the money going to come from?

Am I ever going

[00:18:56] Rick:
Yeah

[00:18:56] Kim:
Clients again? If I take two weeks off?

[00:18:59] Rick:
So when you made that decision, when you’re thinking about, well, if I can do this and I’m, but I won’t be super happy, but I’ll be successful at it, or I can really take things up. I would, I’m going use a team and train and so forth.

And those were the two options. So are we talking about like figuring out what the middle part of that was and being okay with it?

[00:19:31] Kim:
I think it’s not even the middle part. I would say that was maybe, those two things were at the opposite ends, but there was a whole nother, line or vortex or something, a whole. nother option that I hadn’t considered. I was only really considering one way of doing things and I think what that required was pulling back to look at all of the things that I had been drawn to previously, because the truth is I’ve bopped around from careers, my whole professional life.

So why wouldn’t I look at that as a whole.

[00:20:13] Rick:
Do you think that where you cause a lot of people, when a lot of people think about that, and again, I’ll use myself as an example here. I used to think that I want a big team that I wanted an in-person office, you know, and I wanted, you know, like an eight to $10 million business or something like that.

And this is going to sound super weird, but like I figured out, especially after my daughter was born, I didn’t want that. And I wanted a far simpler business. Now, what I’m not saying is because it was simple, wasn’t going to make a lot of money because that’s exactly what I’ve created. However, do I know that the business could be doing more?

Absolutely. But I’m super happy with where things are presently and where things are going. And more importantly, I think with, with that is where I am. With the business, like mentally and emotionally, but also like the level that we’re able to help our students. And those are the two most important things.

And so it’s like, but most people don’t want to. They think that there’s, there were sacrificing like, oh wait, I want, but no, wait, I can go achieve all of this, this and this, but is that truly what people want?

So were, were those things going through your mind? Like, if I, if I choose something different, I don’t know what it was.

You didn’t know what it was at that point. If I choose something different, that truly is going to make me happy. You mean meaning you, and can I still make, you know, a decent amount of money doing it? Was that going through

[00:22:00] Kim:
Oh, for sure. And there are a couple of things that kicked this off. So one was, I was in conversations with someone about potentially joining their startup. And again, you threw out 10 million, it was, like potential of a hundred million. Right. And that’s very attractive. And I think what I had to, what got me through this period was looking at why did I want to become an entrepreneur?

What are the things that I really want to be doing? And actually, I’m pretty sure I journaled a lot about this. And to me, that was, well, I want the flexibility to travel. Travel is hugely important to me before COVID I was traveling at least once a month and I want to be able to take as much time as I need to, whether I’m working or taking it fully off.

That’s really important to me. So any place that there was going to be specific time off, or if I had to have full-time staff that then there was a requirement for them. What does that mean for me? Because I’ve been in those environments where, you know, the staff have to adhere to a certain rule, but. The head of the company doesn’t and that creates a lot of friction and definitely impacts the culture.

So I didn’t want to be tied to that. I wanted, I had to be really honest about how much I had already gotten in my life that I had aspire to. So things like I own a house I’ve paid off all of my college debt. And this is from a very privileged position. I want to say this outright, but just being honest about, you know, like I’m married and I ha I have kids and we’ve gotten through those early days.

And just so many things that for me as a person, I don’t have these big aspirations of, you know, a $10 million house and a boat. And most of what I thought I really wanted were. The experiences. I love a good luxury travel. Like if I could fly first class everywhere, that’s great. But I mean, how much is that really going to cost a year?

In reality, my husband’s still only gets a certain amount of time off. So I had to look at what am I working towards? And then right now, because I know there’s somebody in their mind being like Kim, that’s a very limiting belief to not think that you need more, want more. I’m very clear about, I’m very clear about having fancy things in parts of my life, but, you know, it’s like, okay, what do I actually need to make to make that happen?

And then wouldn’t it be nice if I could have every single Monday out in nature. And to me that was huge. ‘cause you can say that. And I will tell you, I’ve said that before and it’s like, oh, well, client a, I can only meet on Mondays. And then I have to run all my errands or go to the grocery store on Mondays.

No, I’m talking about reserving an entire day of the week for me, that, to me, when we’re talking about what success looks like, that’s what success looks like to me. And so I guess understanding the things that I felt like were important that I wasn’t getting that weren’t nourishing me. Creativity was hugely important.

And the way that we were talking before we hit record about watching TV, I strongly believe that to create things. Out in the world, you have to experience the world. And so if I was just sitting here on my computer, just typing away, I’m not experiencing the world. I can’t have that context to be able to relate to people and come up with those ideas.

And so I’m like, okay, this is actually important for my business, that I can get out and live and not just slave away at the computer. So that’s all to say. I mean, the last thing I’ll point out, which I haven’t talked to anyone recently that this doesn’t resonate for, but when this idea for what you might want to create, doesn’t exist in the world.

It’s so easy to doubt it because I could have looked at building a scalable copywriting business. There are plenty of models for that out there. You can do one-to-one you could do courses, you can do workshops, you could do writing retreats. There’s a whole bunch of things. You could create a writing certification if you wanted, but when you want to create a business that incorporates all of the things that interest you and excite you, and you’re good at if that doesn’t exist somewhere else, it’s hard to imagine bringing that into the world.

And so, yeah, that’s, that was 2021 for me.

[00:27:02] Rick:
Well, thank you for sharing all that. I think what you just described so many people can relate to. And one thing that comes up for me as I’m listening to you is like, when. A lot of people experience what you were just talking about from the perspective of they started this business, but how they are now.

And they’ve, they’ve reached, a level of quote unquote success. We’re defining a generally like revenue wise and helping a whole bunch of people. But now they’ve lost that they lost that fire. It’s not as fun anymore. So then they started thinking about, okay, how do I incorporate more happiness in it for me, but yet then there’s that thought of?

Well, if I do that though, is that actually going to be generating revenue? Because they think about it from a money perspective. One of the big reasons why I started working with a new coach this year earlier in 2021 was because this is everything he talks about. He surfs every single day. He works three days a week, works about 15 hours a week and has a multiple seven figure business.

And he’s got a two year old he has grown up kids too, but he’s got a two year old and that’s what it’s all about simplification. it’s like, okay, are you enjoying what you’re doing? Are you happy with what you’re doing? Are you taking time to do those other things? Like you’re talking like walking in the woods once a week, having a day all to yourself

[00:28:43] Kim:
Well, I mean, what’s more attractive when you’re out there looking at where you want to put your money. Is it more attractive to see someone who is working all the time

And, you know, getting on a call, but 15 minutes and we’ve got to stick to 15 minutes and I don’t have any more time because my calendar is completely full.

And I mean, I guess in a way that’s successful, but most people that’s not appealing. I would much rather work with someone who is able to create a life that a business feels very much of, but fits in that is full and exciting and energizing. And one thing that I’ve recognized this year, this is a lot of the work that I’ve done with my mentor is the way that you feel about your business.

People feel that. So if you, I mean, notice it, when you just come across people online or you get sales emails, you can feel when someone is excited and energized and detached from an outcome versus this is Kim, you know, a year ago, tell me what you need. I’ll do anything. you know, oh, you can’t afford it.

Okay. It’s that, that, nervous and doubting and very low resonance of energy.

[00:30:18] Rick:
And we can’t create our best work from that place. It’s such a great, great point. You bring up. Just as an example where we’ve gone an hour and five minutes now we’re actually 20 minutes over our allotted time. And I’m thinking, oh, no, like I’m okay. Cause like, this is amazing, but I’m like, oh, is she going to, she have to go.

But you’re right. It’s like, what? The way that I look at it. And I D it’s I there’s two sides of it. I, I I’m being disrespectful of your time. Number one on the flip side, I’m like, wait, this is just an amazing conversation that we’re covering so much amazing stuff. And so, I don’t know. I feel like this conversation encompasses everything that we’re talking about in a weird kind of inception Metta cut.

[00:31:13] Kim:
I was going to say Metta. And then I was like, I don’t know if I can use that word.

[00:31:16] Rick:
Yeah. Can we be so

[00:31:18] Kim:
We have to, we have to find a replacement. I mean, I’m good. It’s my grandma’s 90th birthday. So we’re having a surprise ish. I’m like, please, can we not surprise a 90 year old? Can we just have maybe Jack just go upstairs. And, but we’re, we’re good on time. And I mean, I think just as a reflection back to you, cause the people listening to this, every single person listening to this has decided that. This show is worth their time. and I don’t think that we can take that for granted anymore. I had a podcast even know this. I had a podcast That ran a hundred and something episodes. and eventually, I mean, this was the year of unraveling. So clearly that unraveled because I felt like I had again, had to put something out, but it where’s the line between talking about what I’m doing today and teaching, and that’s a whole other conversations. I think we have to keep track of the whole other conversation tangents that we’ve mentioned here.

That could, but, and the thing is what you bring, and this is just a mirror back to you, which I’m sure you hear on feedback, but you bring the human element too. Actually, the content is pretty technical. What you’re teaching.

[00:32:34] Rick:
Yeah

[00:32:34] Kim:
I honestly do believe that we are entering this place, especially with online business where we understand now we know, and the wool is being pulled over our eyes.

We can see someone’s intentions. We see, we care how someone makes us feel like I care. And we didn’t even talk about how we got connected, but it was kind of just a, Hey, so one of our clients has this podcast and we, your name in. And I was like, oh, you don’t have to do that. And they said, no. I mean, I think you guys would really vibe and we’d get on first call.

And it’s like, okay, we have more to talk about. We get on a second call. All right. Yeah. We still have more to talk about, are you on Voxer? Yeah. Cool. We get here, but I think that it’s, it’s about understanding. This might not work for everyone, right? If you had someone on here who, the way that they like to show up and be visible and run their business is just through teaching. and the way that they feel comfortable is by explaining their five step framework or method that might be hard to keep a conversation going because of your style and approach to the work. So again, it’s about, I mean, I definitely listened to episodes and researched you and understood who you were as a person before saying yes.

And a year ago I would have thought I was crazy for saying that, because again, it’s like, I just got to take everything that I can take, but the alignment wouldn’t have been there.

[00:34:09] Rick:
And realizing that it’s okay not to take things that you don’t align with. And when you take things that align with you that, and this isn’t the case here, but doing things that align with you that maybe aren’t going to, you know, vastly affect your business or benefit your business anyway, that’s okay. Because, when we’re doing that, you know, it’s the whole, you know, kind of woo thing, if you will, where like, when we’re doing, when we’re doing something we truly enjoy, and you mentioned the energy before and the energy is there, like the success is going to come. Whatever the definition of success is.

[00:34:57] Kim:
Yeah, and I want to point out, I think I meant to mention this and I didn’t, cause sometimes I don’t even know what’s coming out of my mouth, but there’s a difference between what we’re talking about. And do what you love or build it. And they will come. There’s a really important distinction here because it’s still a business and not a hobby.

And so I’m not saying everything that you love doing expect to make money off of it. When I am saying is using your talents in a way that feels most natural and aligned. And I told myself, I wouldn’t use word authentic, but you know, an authentic expression of you versus attempting something else. I guess it goes down to what I can do and what I must do.

Like what I can do a lot of things, but my fire is only in a few things, the spark and what, and that change can change over time too. I also want to acknowledge that because for a long time, as I was learning. Copywriting for the web, which is highly different than academic writing. That was exciting and engaging and challenging for me until it got to a point where it wasn’t anymore.

And that’s okay. And I think we’re always going to be, you know, right now I’m talking about, oh, I want to do a bunch of retreats and until maybe I only want to vacation by myself and I don’t want, I don’t want to be

[00:36:32] Rick:
Yeah

[00:36:32] Kim:
On, so that’s okay too.

[00:36:34] Rick:
Yeah. Now as we wrap up here, I just want to put like, put that into a nice bow, if you will. So what I’m hearing is. We can absolutely be successful. Whatever the, our definition of success is when we allow ourselves to focus on what lights us up, what makes us happy while remembering that we are running a business. And, you know, I love the distinction between what we can do and what we must do, but there’s also a balance there because running a business.

[00:37:15] Kim:
A hundred percent and, you know, just because I’ve used copywriting as an example, I still write for clients. But I don’t lead with that. That’s not why they’re hiring me. That’s an added bonus of the engagement. And after I took that time this year, and I spent honestly, most of September and October and part of November, just going inward and creating, I will have had, I hate when people say this, but it’s true.

I will have had the biggest quarter, the biggest year for sure of my business, but the biggest quarter of my business after really kind of going dark. So again, I hate to set up this whole expectation of just focus on yourself and you’re going to make all the money in the world, but there is something about, you’ve got to feed yourself before you can feed the people that you want to serve. And there will be a direct correlation between how you’re feeling about your business and how other people feel about.

[00:38:16] Rick:
Because we can talk for been an hour and 15 minutes right now Yeah, seriously. we can continue. I could to your, your grandma’s surprise birthday party and I’ll bring the recorder and we’ll continue talking

[00:38:32] Kim:
Be great.

[00:38:33] Rick:
I want to make sure that people can connect with you, wherever they can find you.

What are all the places

[00:38:38] Kim:
Sure. Yep. So I don’t know exactly when this will air, but we have a new pattern of purpose.com coming soon. I also, you

Can find me at Kim Wensel, w E N S E l.com by the time this is live and that’s going to be more of the personal side to what we referenced today and then the socials which we mentioned, but those are the two main places.

[00:39:06] Rick:
Awesome. I’ll link everything up in the show notes for today’s episode. You will definitely come back on the show, consider this a formal invitation to have you back on. Thank you for coming on. amazing conversation. a lot of my listeners know, actually we have a thousands of new listeners to the show, so maybe some people don’t know.

I start my interviews with a blank doc in front of me. I might have, you know, I open up Evernote, excuse me. I can’t play with notion, sorry. Notion. I use notion. I open up a notion doc. I have like one sentence or even a couple of words on there. And like I tell, Kim, for example, I said, Hey, this is like you and I sit down for coffee And we’re going to be chatting about this topic where it goes. I have no idea. And so here we are an hour and 15 minutes later of just amazing conversation. That’s going to help a whole bunch of people. So thank you for coming on and sharing your stories, your expertise, appreciate it.

[00:40:07] Kim:
Thank you, and to everyone who’s made it this far, thanks for joining us. Hope you picked up something.

I just got to say, before we before we wrap, Rick, you make being a podcast guest so easy.

As someone who used to be a host and who has been on many podcasts, it is an unparalleled experience. So, thank you…

[00:40:30] Rick:
Oh thank you.

[00:40:31] Kim:
for your skill in asking questions and tracking the conversation in a way that’s going to be most useful to listeners.

It’s quite a skill.

[00:40:39] Rick:
Thank you. I appreciate that.

That’s a skill that, it’s just, I haven’t studied anything, but just, I think it’s just a matter of—I don’t know. We can talk about this, it’s like a whole other topic.

[00:40:52] Kim:
Perfect example of what we talked about today.

[00:40:55] Rick:
Yeah, yeah,

[00:40:57] Kim:
It doesn’t have to be linear.

[00:40:58] Rick:
Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[00:41:03] Kim:
Thanks.

[00:41:07] Rick:
Alright. So, we’ll definitely have Kim back on the podcast in the future. I’ve linked all the links that we talked about, between part two here and part one last week, over in our show notes for today’s episode. Just go to Rick mulready.com, look for the podcast section and you will see it right there.

As I mentioned the top of this episode, we are accepting applications for our Accelerator coaching program. This is for established online course creators and online coaches. If you want to learn more and apply—it’s application only—go to RickMulready.com/Accelerator.

Thank you, my friends, so much for tuning in today. This interview, between part one and part two with Kim, was so much fun to do.

I super appreciate you, as always for subscribing to the show and supporting it, coming to listen each and every week. We’ve got a whole bunch of amazing episodes coming your way that I’m really, really excited to deliver to you.

Until then, my friends, be well, and I’ll talk to you soon.