There’s a lot of talk about a recession and the economy lately, and I have seen a number of posts online about recession-proofing your business.

I sat down with Jacquette Timmons in this episode to talk about what is really going on with the economy right now and how online businesses can win during a recession. 

Jacquette M. Timmons focuses on the human side of money. She works as a financial behaviorist and is committed to getting you to see that you don’t manage money, you manage your choices around money.

In addition to being an author (“Financial Intimacy: How to Create a Healthy Relationship with Your Money and Your Mate”) and frequent blogger, Jacquette is also the creator of Pricing Made Human®. PMH is designed to help entrepreneurs and small business owners tackle the question, “What should I charge for this?” from all sides: the financial, the emotional, and the personal, so they can price more confidently, strategically, and end up with a thriving business and thriving life. She also hosts The Comfort Circle™ – a dinner series where she hosts discussions about money, business, and life over food and wine – and the podcast, “More Than Money.”

When she’s not providing behavioral-based financial coaching, she’s traveling the country for speaking engagements on behalf of Fortune 100 companies, AM Law 200 firms, nationally known non-profits, and conferences (large & boutique) to talk about the intersection of emotions and money. Her work has been featured on Minnesota Public Radio, SiriusXM, “Good Morning America,” Oprah.com, CNN, HLN, FOX, Black Enterprise, NPR, Reuters.com, and the Wall Street Journal.

Jacquette holds an MBA in finance from Fordham University’s Graduate School of Business and an undergrad in marketing from the Fashion Institute of Technology. A combination she credits, in part, for being able to blend her analytical mind and creative spirit in service to help her clients shift how they look at money; how they perceive its role in their life; and how they give it direction. She lives in Brooklyn, NY, and can be seen running in Prospect Park most days of the week.

There’s a lot of uncertainty right now when it comes to the economy, but there are things that you can do in your business to prepare. My goal for this episode is to help you set yourself up for as much success and “security” as possible. 

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How a recession is defined
• Why our economy is not as bad as it may seem
• What business owners can do during times of uncertainty
• Why you need to reevaluate your expense report
• How to find ROI on different aspects of your business 
• How much savings you should aim for and how to manage it
• What is going on in the stock market and how to build wealth with it
• Resources that will help you understand what is going on and how to prepare

Links & Resources:

• Make Me Smart Podcast
• The Secret Code of the Superior Investor book
• The Psychology of Money book
• The Art of Online Business website
• DM me on Instagram
• Visit my YouTube channel
• The Art of Online Business clips on YouTube
• Full episodes of The Art of Online Business Podcast on YouTube
• The Art of Online Business Podcast website
• Check out my Accelerator coaching program

*Disclosure: I only recommend products I use and love and all opinions expressed here are my own. This post may contain affiliate links that at no additional cost to you, I may earn a small commission.

Jacquette Timmons’ Links:

• Visit Jacquette’s website
• Follow Jacquette on Instagram
• Check out the Financial Wheel Exercise

Got A Question You Want Answered On the Podcast?

Ask your questions or let me know if there is a topic or guest you’d like to hear from in the comments below or click here to visit my contact page and submit your question there for a chance to be featured on one of my upcoming Q&A episodes.

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Hey my friend, welcome to the Art of Online Business Podcast. My name is Rick Mullaney and I’m an online business coach. I’m an ad’s expert, and most importantly, I’m a dad. And this show is where we help established online course creators and coaches create more profit, more impact with less hustle. All right, let’s get into it. What’s up, my friend? Good to hang out with you today. Hope all is going well. Today I want to talk about money. You know, the our favorite topic is talk about money. But I want to talk about it in terms of, you know, there’s all this talk around I’m recording this. This is the middle of July that I’m recording this. So all this talk about recession and what’s going on with the economy and all that sort of thing. And I’ve been seeing a lot of social media posts, especially in the online space around recession proofing your business and and all this other stuff. And. I don’t like to dive right into talking about something until there is some context to what’s what’s happening. And that’s really the topic of today’s conversation with my guest, Jack Timmons. And Jacquet is a financial behaviorist. She’s an author. She’s a sought after speaker, a coach, a podcaster, a course creator and a blogger. 

And she’s just an amazing person. And she’s returning to the podcast here after the interview I did with her back in December of 2021 here on the podcast, which I’ll link up in the show notes for today’s episode where we talked about pricing, wealth building and your relationship with money. And so I invited her back on to the podcast to talk about, you know, what’s going on with the economy and are we in a recession or are we heading towards a recession? And really, how does that affect us as online business owners, as entrepreneurs? And so we’re going to break all that down here today. And, you know, we have a lot of uncertainty. There’s a lot of fear. And I don’t ever want to further I don’t want to fear monger, if you will. And that’s why I’ve kind of really taken my time and been very intentional with talking about this topic. So we’re going to get into today what Jacquet is afraid of when it comes to the economy. We’re going to talk about why she tends to get frustrated by the reporting that has been happening on recessions. We talk about what online business owners can do with the uncertainty that exists around the economy. 

She talks about getting restraints in place in your business. We talk about expenses and ROI and basically the types of things that you really can be doing to set yourself up. For as much success and quote unquote, security, because security is different for everybody. What exactly is security? But that’s what the often the thought that people go to in this time of uncertainty and at the very end, I ask her to she shares some resources that you can both listen to and read to begin to educate yourself on topics of investing and the psychology of money and actually what’s going how to stay on top of what’s going on right now with out without the approach of fear mongering, I think that’s really most important. And so we talk a lot about context of what’s going on, and I’m really excited to share this. I learned a lot from this episode and this interview with Choquette, so without further ado, let’s go hang out with Jacquet. Timmons Jacquet Welcome back to the podcast. We were just talking it’s been I don’t even know exactly. We don’t know exactly. But it’s been several months since you’ve been on the show. Welcome back to the podcast. 

Oh, I’m so delighted to be here. 

Thank you. Absolutely. So I have been kind of slowly creeping towards this topic. And I the reason for that is because I feel like there’s been especially in the online space, I feel like there’s been like a lot of fear mongering, like, you know, like, uh oh, like it’s all crashing down and it’s just like and I know you talk a lot about this and we’re going to dive into this here today, but it’s like, all right, let’s get some perspective on all this recession talk. Yes. And so that’s why I’m kind of like, all right, let’s start to talk about this a little bit more, but from different perspectives. Mm hmm. You know, like it’s not all doom and gloom sort of sort of thing. Yes. And so before we do that, for those people who do not listen to our previous episode where we talked about money also and investing and so forth, let’s have you reintroduce yourself to my audience here. What what is it that you do? What is your specialty?

My specialty is getting people to focus on the human side of money, to pay attention to their behavior, their choices, their emotions and their beliefs. And I do that in a number of different ways. I do one on one coaching, mostly with entrepreneurs and small business owners. And then I’m also a for hire speaker, mostly for AM law 200 firms, Fortune 100 to 500 firms, large conferences, nonprofits, etc.. But again, my message is all about how can we make sure that as we’re making decisions and taking actions as it pertains to our money, that we’re leading with what I believe is the part of the equation that matters most, which is our behavior and our choices. And I think that also allows us to make those decisions and take those actions from a place of power, even when we don’t like the options that are available to us. 

What do you mean by that? What do you mean by that? That last part there, even when we don’t like the options that are available to us. 

So I know we’ll dive into it a little bit more deeply. But, you know, we’re going to be talking about the recession and some of the factors that influence, you know, whether or not we are in or going to or coming out of a recession. A lot of those things are things that we can’t control, but we can control other things. And I think that that’s where our power lies by focusing on those things that we can control. And also, I think having a historical having an understanding of the history and the history around our economic activity and all of that. So that’s what I mean. 

Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Well, I mean, it’s it is. What is today’s date? July 19th. Yes, you’re right. 

Yes, it’s July 19. 

Yes, July 19th, 2022. And there’s been a whole lot of talk about is there a recession coming? Are we in a recession? And you wrote recently on your website, you wrote a blog post where you said that you are you often get frustrated by the reporting that happens about recessions. Why why do you get frustrated with it? 

I get frustrated because it is all focused on. You know, it’s almost like a recession is coming. A recession is coming. Doom and gloom. And it wants you to focus on that. And it wants you to stay anchored in fear. And it doesn’t I don’t think it doesn’t give equal airtime to the reality of the fact that recessions are natural. There is a particular pattern, if you will, in terms of why they occur, even though the variables change from recession to recession. And, you know, it doesn’t perhaps provide much solace to someone who is concerned about are we headed into a recession? But we’ve had seven in the last 52 years. So when you think about it through that prism, I think it’s a way of kind of helping to relax one’s nervous system. Yeah, but I don’t think I think a lot of the media benefits from the hysteria and therefore that’s the message that gets perpetuated, I guess. Perpetuated. Is that the word I’m looking for? 

Yeah, it gets the numbers. It gets people. 

Watching. 

People tuning in or reading. 

Yeah. So that’s what I mean by that. 

And you know, is it? I mean, their natural right, their economic flow ups and downs. You said there’s been seven in the last 52 years, so roughly every seven years or so. Now, you wrote something I want to read it verbatim here, which I thought was super interesting. And you said and on the off chance that you didn’t know, the National Bureau of Economic Research, NBER, defines a recession as a significant decline in economic activity that is spread across the economy and lasted for more than a few months. The NBER also determines when a recession starts and ends. 

Now. 

Is that arbitrary? They’re like, Yeah, we’re out of it. Or are they actually, you know, like across the economy and lasts more than a few months? So isn’t that I mean, that just please break that down because that just sounds so weird to me.

So, yeah, it’s it’s not arbitrary, but I think what it speaks to is oftentimes our news is anchored in the moment and the NBER and other, you know, institutions like it, they’re looking at what happened the first three months of the year, what happened the most current three months, what happened the quarter before that, to really make an assessment of are we really headed into a recession? And so it they yes, they make the determination, but it’s the determination based upon did we have six months of a downshift in economic activity or just two months of a downshift in economic activity? And that lens of time really, really matters in terms of what is really happening in our economy. But again, going back to the media, it’s focused on what’s happening right now. So as an example, you know, again, we’re recording this in July, a couple of weeks ago, everybody was up in arms about oil prices. Not that that was wrong to be up in arms about that and gas prices, etc.. But guess what? They’ve come down significantly in two and a half to three weeks, right? 

Right. Yeah. 

June’s not sorry. Well, I. June’s unemployment rate was the same as May’s unemployment rate. So when you take those things into consideration, our economy is not as bad as some of the factors that contribute to our economy is. Does that make sense? 

Yeah, for sure. And you? I really liked how you broke down in your article here. I have it up in front of me that you kind of broke down the last several recessions and, you know, looked at. So, for example, in 2020, when the pandemic sparked this recession, you said that unemployment peaked at 14.7%. 

Right. 

Compared to what it is. 

Right. 

Today. Right. Right. And the you know, the very well known 2008, 2009 recession by the subprime mortgages and stuff like that, unemployment peaked at 10%. 

Mm hmm. 

So is it fair to say that it’s all relative? 

It absolutely is all relative. Because I think one of the things that often gets lost is how important it is to keep context and circumstances in mind. So the variables that, you know, impact or influence our economic activity are, you know, GDP, income, employment, manufacturing, retail sales. All of those things stay static. And those are the things that we’re measuring. But how they get impacted and what influences that, that’s the piece that’s contextual and and is circumstance driven and that’s the element that changes all the time. 

And what is very apparent as inflation is that what is it since 1981? I think it was. Since it’s highest. 

Yes, it’s highest point. Yeah. Everything costs everything costs more. Absolutely. And there’s no denying that. But here’s what I’m afraid of. I’m afraid of, again, going back to the window of time. If the Fed continues to raise interest rates based upon just what’s happening in the short term and not accounting for let’s wait a beat, see what that lag response is before we make another adjustment. That could potentially be the thing that puts us into a recession. And I think the lesson that we can learn as business owners there is to make sure that you’re not making decisions today based upon how you made a decision in the past when things were tight. So if we think about, you know, who might have been, I don’t I can’t even think of a particular name right now. Maybe Greenspan, some of the decisions that he may have made when he was head of the Fed around controlling inflation. If Powell. Follows that game plan precisely, but not doesn’t take into account again how those contexts and circumstances change and doesn’t give things an opportunity to actually play out itself naturally. That could be the thing that pushes us into a recession, too. Like if you if you act prematurely. 

Now I want to get into the business side of this, obviously here in just a minute. But but that’s really important. And I don’t know if you have the answer. And I’m just I’m truly curious on this. You said we hopefully they’re taking into account the lag time to see, you know, the increase in interest rates that they’ve done over the past little while here and the bumps that they’ve made. How long does it generally take to see the effect of of those types of hikes?

Sometimes 2 to 3 months, sometimes 2 to 3 months. So that’s the concern, right, that you make. You make a you have an interest rate hike. It doesn’t do exactly what you want it to do, but you’re measuring that just on, you know, a couple of weeks or maybe just a month and not really giving it the room and space for it to kind of settle in. 

Yeah. Now, you mentioned as far as making decisions as a business owner, so we are online business owners and times have been really, really good for a lot of businesses for many years now. And I mean, granted, you know, the as the pandemic, I’m not making minimizing that in any way. A lot of business business is flourished. 

Exactly. 

Especially online businesses during that time. 

Yeah. 

What are things that because of this fearmongering, if you will, and, you know, let’s be let’s be honest here, I get caught up in it, too. I’m like, you know, like, oh. Right. You know, the whole thing, like, is business going to fall apart? Sort of. Right, right. Right. And so let’s get let’s be very clear. I’m no different than than a lot of other people that I know. You know, it’s a concern. With that said, how what are some things that we as business owners can be doing during this time of uncertainty? 

So I’m going to answer that question. But before I answer it, I want to just also highlight how recessions typically happen after a period of overconfidence, because there is a collective tendency to perhaps become a little bit more arrogant, a little less guarded about paying attention to guardrails and actually practicing the discipline to adhere to those guardrails. So I want to say that so I think a lot of folks, because of how well, you know, again, not not to to minimize the challenges that some businesses have, but like you said, there were a lot of businesses that flourished through this pandemic and we’re still in it. And so that could perhaps lead to a little bit of overconfidence. So I would say a couple of things. Number one, whatever it is that you’re feeling, feel it like let’s not deny the feeling. But then if you are afraid and you are afraid, like, oh my God, is business going to fall apart? Use that as an opportunity to kind of reevaluate, Well, where might you need to have some restraints? Where might you need to make sure? And restraints can look like a number of different things. Restraints could look like making sure that you are increasing both your business and personal savings. 

Restraints could look like making some decisions and taking different actions. With regard to your marketing process and and even your sales process, it could look like reevaluating your business model and really paying attention to over the last six months, over the last 12, maybe, maybe even 18 months, which of your offers, presuming you have more than one, which of your offers have really been selling? And maybe now is the time to really double down and only focus on those one or two offers that are indeed, you know, contributing the most to your revenue. So that’s to me are examples of what restraint could look like. I think it also could be making sure to reconnect with what are your short and long term goals, both from a business standpoint and personally, and then making sure that the decisions that you are making are in alignment with what those goals are. Because maybe in the euphoria of things going well, you kind of abandoned, Oh yeah, that was my goal. And I was supposed to be doing A, B, C or D to get toward that goal. 

Right. Right. 

So it kind of sounds like. As I’m listening to you and taking notes and in reading the article that you that you’ve written, it’s like these are things that we kind of should be doing, quote unquote should on a regular basis. 

Absolutely. 

That with the knowledge that. Recessions are inevitable seven over the past 52 years that they shouldn’t be a surprise. Maybe when they happen are is a surprise. But like the the fact that recessions happen isn’t a surprise. 

Exactly. Exactly. And I would add one more thing in terms of, you know, what we should do. I think this is one of the things I always say to my clients anyway, is that when you look at your expense report, every expense needs to fight for the right to be on it. And so when things become a little questionable, I think reevaluating your expenses to make sure that they are delivering the return on investment that you want or that you need. And then I also think the same is true and connected to the comment that I made about marketing efforts. Reevaluate that to from the lens of is it delivering the return on investment that you anticipated or wanted? Like Don’t stop marketing just because we might be going into a downturn, but reevaluate what you’re doing from a marketing standpoint.

So you mentioned, you know, marketing your marketing quote unquote expenses and ensuring that they’re that they’re returning in ROI. That’s fairly easy to measure. But there’s also other line items on like a pal, for example, that aren’t so easy to measure an ROI on. 

How can you give me an example? Give me an example of one. 

Let’s just say maybe like hiring an executive assistant. Generally. Generally, this is not the case for I’m making a generalization here, but they that role usually isn’t tied directly to like revenue, sales revenue. And that could be argued. That certainly could be argued. Right. However there’s an ROI on time right person that so like if, if I have an E for example, I’m getting a whole bunch of time back. So there’s certainly an ROI there. And then I could, you know, then you can look at it like, okay, well what am I doing with that freed up time? So. Ken, I’d love to get your thought on, on how you’re looking at those types of. Expenses on your pal when maybe it’s not directly related to a revenue number. 

Yeah. You know, you might not be able to reverse engineer it and say that hiring that AEA will lead to more sales of this versus more sales of that. However, I would say when you think about the fact that it is freeing up your time. Yeah, it is allowing you to either market that deliver that make some improvements to the design and the operations of it. And so yeah, you know, you can’t say, oh well if you do X, that’s going to increase the number of sales for item that’s blue versus item that’s yellow. But it will help you to absolutely sell more of both of those things potentially. And I think that’s how you have to look at it. 

And I mean, thank you for breaking that down. And I’m at a time right now. Again, this is July of 2022. I’m actually expanding my team. And they I mean, to your point, Jughead, it’s it’s very intentional, very revenue, you know, looking for the ROI. It’s going to be very measurable on the marketing side. 

Right. 

But most people pull back. 

Right. 

Right. 

So is there a is there a way to look at it and say, well, we’re pulling back to somebody, pulling back too much, or maybe you should be pulling back more. I understand that every situation is individual, but is there sort of a guideline to be sort of following and that sort of that sort of scenario? 

Yes. So I think if the natural tendency is to pull back, that’s actually when you shouldn’t. I know that may seem counterintuitive, but that’s actually when you shouldn’t. And I think that if someone is really fearful of it, well, then that’s another signal then that you need to build up your reserves, because the only reason why you’re probably nervous is because you’re not sure if you’re going to have the financial stability to be able to withstand anything. That might be a surprise. But I will say, you know, one of the benefits of having worked in the industry since 1986 is I can say this with a great deal of confidence, no matter what is going on in the stock market, which, by the way, people is different than what’s going on in the economy. Everybody likes to conflate them. They are one or, you know, they’re two different things. What I will say is people make money in all markets. They make money when there’s a recession. They make money when we’re on a growth trajectory. They make money when the market is up. They make money when the market is down. And the people who make money make money because they’ve used those up markets to build up a reserve so that when things are tight, they can be so much more strategic about the decisions that they make and they can do things like what you’re doing is using this as an opportunity to expand. So if someone is listening and they’re like, Oh my God, they’re biting their nails because they’re like, I want to pull back. I would say that means you need to go forward and you need to figure out how to make it happen. 

If if they don’t have. And so they’re like, Wait, I’d love to make this higher over here, or I’d love to add whatever it is, but they don’t have a level of and I’d love to hear what your recommendation is on what kind of savings that you recommend, both on the personal side and business, if they don’t have any type of. Significant will call it savings, either business or personal. Should that be the focus before doing that higher? 

So I’m going to answer it in one of two ways or two ways. So. I think one of the things that we sometimes get caught up on when we’re making and hire is we think about even if it’s on a contractual basis, we might think about the total number as opposed to what’s the number that I need for the next month?

Mhm. 

Yep. Right. And so whether you’re paying a contractor on a monthly retainer or you’re thinking about what’s those, those two payroll periods that I need to make for an employee, what’s that number for a month. And the reason why I think it’s important to kind of narrow it down to that time frame is then it helps you to think about what is an additional sale that I can make that’s going to generate that number. And so that would be the the the way I would think about, well, how do you how do you give yourself permission to move forward with that from a reserve standpoint? You know, prior to the pandemic, I probably would have said a different timeline. 

Yeah. 

But you know, it all depends, you know, on a person’s circumstances. But I would hope that if you had at least three months, I mean, ideally, yes, you’d love for it to be more. But if you had at least three months of savings, both personally and from a business standpoint, that should give you the runway, especially if whatever it is that you’re selling doesn’t have a long lead time. Now, if something that you’re selling has a really long lead time from start to close, then that changes the timeline altogether. But if you can have a discovery call or do an initial launch, you know, today and potentially have a new client in a month or six weeks from now, then three months should hold you because at least you know you’re doing the work to bring in that that revenue, those sales. 

Now you’re talking three months business expenses, right? Or are we talking personal? 

Well, ideally, it would be both. A combination of business and personal expenses. Yes. Gotcha. 

Okay. 

Yeah. 

This is completely like I’m just I’m thinking of this question I’m going to ask you. It’s kind of irrelevant to what we’re talking about from a straight up strategy, what’s going on. But like I’m thinking about this right now and I’m just curious what your answer is. Okay. Now you’re like, Oh, my God, what is he going to ask me? So so I’ve been very fortunate in I have been able to build up a savings on on the personal side. Mm hmm. And. I never want to touch it. I never want to touch it. Even if. Like. When, like I needed to. I feel like. Oh, that’s really bad. Like. Like psychologically. Like emotionally. This is a I’ve been aware of this for years and years and I just I know it’s there, which is makes me feel great, but I don’t know. There’s something like psychologically for me that if, like, if I had to, if my family had to, to, to go to the savings, like, oh, that’s not good. Right. Like. Do you have any thoughts on that? I’m just super curious. 

I do. I actually I do. I think that if you have that pool of money that you don’t want to attach all in one account, I think you need to separate it out and you need to have a part of that is the do not touch at all under no circumstances. And then you’ve got the amount that you can touch. You can either borrow some of it to invest in your business and you have a game plan for paying yourself back or, you know, whatever. But I think breaking it out from a single account with X amount into it. Two. Two accounts with one amount. That is your do not touch. 

Okay. 

The world has to be on fire. 

I like. 

That. You touch it. Yeah. 

And another account that you give yourself permission to tap into. And I think it also helps to come up with some rules around. Well, what are the circumstances that I will tap into this and if it is tapping into it. To, you know, either get your business through a rough patch or to help scale it to another level. Then what’s your game plan for paying yourself back? 

Hmm. Yeah. Most of us, myself included. I have never thought of it that way. And I’m so glad I brought that question up because.

Yeah, me too. 

You know. 

The the other thing, too, and this came up just literally in the past two weeks with interest rates. So high savings account, you know, interest rates are much higher. Right. And it was recommended to me because this the savings account is just sitting in a savings account with, you know, with a bank. And they said, well, check the check what your rate is on it. And I was like, Oh, it’s like 0.02 or something like that. Something, yeah, you got it. And they were like, Oh yeah, you know, here’s, here’s a list of all these other banks that you. 

Can do alternatives. 

And they’re like 1.8, you know? Right. I was like, Well, yeah, I’m leaving money on the table. 

Exactly. Exactly. And you know what’s so funny again? Context and perspective. So I remember I don’t know if you remember when I and G Direct first came on the scene, but that was. 

Yeah, I do. 

Yeah, right. And back then, interest rates on savings and money markets accounts were like 9%. 

Yeah. 

And, you know, now it’s like, whoa, we’re really excited about 1.8%. 

Exactly. 

Exactly. Oh, my God. 

And on the flip side, well, I know people are freaking out about mortgage interest rates going up. And, you know, they’re so accustomed to when they were like two and 3%. I remember in the eighties when they were like double digits. 

Yeah, yeah. 

So context matters. We keep saying. 

That. Yeah, it’s so it’s so important. I have two questions that that as we start to wrap up the conversation here that keep coming up for me and one is you mentioned, you know, we make money, people can make money. And regardless of the type of economy, recession, good times, you know, whatever you’ve been doing this a long time. When, from what you’ve seen over the years, the people who have made a lot of money in. Whether it’s well, let’s let’s let’s keep it within their business. Right. What are some of the things that they’re doing? How are they doing that? They did it. And is it more behavior based? 

Well, I would say it is behavior based because they didn’t make any dramatic changes or shifts in strategy simply based on a short term interruption. So that would be the key thing, like they didn’t make any major moves. Because it felt uncomfortable in the short term. They really kept the long term vision in place and, you know, stuck to that long term strategy. And they may have made tweaks to how it’s executed, but closing the gap between here and there, for the most part stayed the same. 

Yeah. And there there also, I would imagine that they’re looking for opportunities based on what’s going on at the time.

Yeah, you know, I don’t I don’t know all of the different businesses that will be tuning into the episode. But this is also an opportunity depending upon what your business is. If you know of another business that is looking to be acquired, this might be the good time to acquire it. Yeah. Right. And so it’s an opportunity that may not have presented itself under different circumstances. And it’s an opportunity that. Because of the environment it puts you in. It makes you a it’s a buyer’s market, right? And so it puts you in for certain things anyway. It puts you in a position to perhaps have more negotiating strength. 

Yeah. This. I’m really glad you brought that up, because this is something I’ve been thinking a lot more about, and I know that you’re I know that you’re a fan of the stock market. That’s a whole other. Well, I would love to ask you about that as well. Heck, I mean, let’s let’s talk about it. But that’s something I’ve been thinking about. Maybe like, oh, a lot. Because a lot of people, when they’re thinking about building wealth, generally, generally, they’re not thinking about especially in the online space, they’re not thinking about purchasing another business or investing in another business. When you bring up a great point during these times, there may be opportunities there where you can acquire or invest in their business. And now you have. You’ve got that in your portfolio. If you if you will. 

Yes. 

When it comes to the stock market compared to this. I know this is your this is an expertise of yours and it’s a buyer’s market right now. Right. Because stocks across the board. Now, I’m I did not start any kind of wealth building early in my life. That’s one thing I greatly. So I’m getting a later start. Stocks don’t really bring it for me. I’m not I’m not even talking like individual. I’m talking more like funds, index funds and ETFs or what have you. 

Mm hmm. 

They don’t really, like, be up because I think, like, oh, we’re going to do, you know, 8 to 10%, which is which is good. But I just look at that again, psychological. The way I look at it is long term. And I’m thinking. I’m getting started later in life. So is it even a path to. To look at. I’d love to get your thoughts on that. 

Oh, yeah. It is a path to absolutely look at. And even though you may have gotten a later start, you still have a long time horizon. You know, you probably still be in the market and, you know, 20, 30 years. And so that’s a long time horizon. So it’s definitely in your favor. And, you know, one of the things I always remind people is that when it comes to building wealth, you’ve got three pathways owning a business or buying a business, investing in the stock market or in other businesses and income producing real estate. Those are the three key primary ways to build wealth. So also, if depending upon the position that you’re in, this might be a good time to buy some property because again, it is a buyer’s market in terms of having some negotiating power. 

Right? Right. Even with the interest rates as high as they. I mean, granted. 

Yeah, because if you. 

Get a context. 

Right, because if you get a variable like I would never do fixed unless it was really low and it’s not right now. So if you get a variable, you can always, you know, refinance at a lower rate. So. Yeah, absolutely. 

Gotcha. 

Yeah, absolutely. It’s really asking people I don’t know if the word that I’m looking for is contrarian or counterintuitive, but it’s sometimes asking people to do the opposite of what may seem the most logical thing to do. So, you know, buying a business now to some folks may sound crazy. Some people think investing in the stock market right now is crazy, but it’s like you’re getting stocks on sale. So you’ve got the money. Do it right now. 

Yeah. 

And same for real estate.

So having a sale, get in there. 

Yeah, exactly. 

You know, it’s the whole. What’s the saying? Like when people are running away, run in or something like that. Exactly. Yeah. 

Somebody could do something to do with that. 

Mm hmm. 

Last question for you. Is it fair to say that? It’s our mindset like if we are afraid of all this talk about recession. Is it fair to say, well, it’s all about your mindset and how you are looking at it. You can you can decide that this has no effect on me. Just because. Just due to how you look at it. Is that fair to say? 

In part. And the reason why I say in part is because we can’t deny the impact of every single time. If you have a TV, you turn on your television or you go on social media or you turn on your radio. You can’t deny the impact that hearing the doomsday message has on you. And so I say in part, because you have to really be intentional about working on, okay, I’m taking this information in. It’s making me fearful. So now I’ve got to work to make sure that I’m not letting that fear drive my decisions. I think we talked about this in our last conversation. I don’t think fear is bad. I just think we need to be honest with ourselves about what that fear really is, what the source of that is, and really use it as an invitation to ask, what is this reminding me of that I either need to do or that I haven’t done and then take those actions based on that. 

Yeah. I like that. I like that. What are some. And I want to I want you to share where people can connect with you. What are what are also some resources that we can look at? I’m always looking for good resources to kind of stay up on what’s going on, hopefully without all the fear mongering. 

Yeah. 

Places or sources that you recommend. 

So we are having this conversation on a podcast. I think a podcast from NPR called Make Me Smart is a really good one because it talks about everything because, you know, at some point I think everything is connected to money in the economy, right? So it talks about all of the different things. And it’s a really great way of helping to bring some calm in the chaos, if you will, when it comes to money. So that’s one there is a very, very old investing book. And so read it to understanding that it’s really old. But I think the principles of it are really timeless and it is called the Secret Code of the Superior Investor. And the reason that I like it, especially for those that might be new to investing in the stock market, is it always reminds you that when you are investing, you are investing in people and it helps you to kind of take a step back and really kind of focus in on that as opposed to chasing the Stock of the Day or the mutual fund of the day. And then I think another book that’s been getting a lot of attention, and rightfully so, it came out during the pandemic, is the psychology of money. I think that’s a really good book in terms of just again, reminding people of how much it is about behavior. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

And having a practice, a disciplined practice. 

Is that and I’ve not read that book, but I have seen all the videos, I’ve read the summaries of that book and stuff like that. What I was what I was taking from everything I’ve seen and read again, I haven’t read the whole book. Is it super basic? Or because I read that and I’m like, I read the title and I’m like, Ooh, cool. I want to like the psychology. Like, like I was talking about what’s, what’s behind my not wanting to touch the, like that sort of thing. But then from what I was seeing and reading, it wasn’t quite that. Or maybe I was missing something.

I thought it was super basic, but what I appreciated are the stories and that and the examples that he provides. And I think if if even if you to read it and you’re like, Oh God, this is so basic. Yeah. Focus less than on the message and focus more on the stories and the examples because it brings that basic thing to life and then it just helps us to see where we might be in a similar set of circumstances and how we can use that as a guide for helping us to make the choices that would really serve us both in the short term and the long term. And I think I know you want to wrap up, but I think the thing that I really would hope that people get from this conversation is if 

you were just reacting to the recession, then you’re only making decisions that benefit you in the short term. Yeah, but if you are being informed by the concerns around the recession, you’re making decisions that will benefit you both in the short term and the long term. 

Yeah. And listening to, you know, the, you know, the NPR podcast and the Secret Code of the Superior Investor, The Psychology of Money. I’ll link those up in the show notes for everybody for today’s episode. By the way, listening to a podcast, obviously that’s current and up to date and sort of thing and psychology money in the past couple of years, secret code the A Superior Investor is an older book. But again, to your point, Jughead, the principles that you’re learning can be used to be looking at what’s happening in the economy more contextually relevant, like, like, like what you’ve been talking all about here today, is that right? 

Yeah, totally. Totally. And the thing about Make Me Smart is it’s daily. So it is literally taking what happened today. Yeah. 

And putting it into into context. Oh Donna is one other thing I was going to say in the slipped my mind, so hopefully it’ll come back. Okay. 

Well, where can people connect with you? Obviously, you’re a wealth of knowledge. No pun intended here. Well, pun intended, yes. Yeah, you’re a wealth of knowledge and you’re an amazing person. And I want to make sure that people can connect with you and whether they’re signed up to work with you or just learned from you. What are all the ways that people can do that? 

Yeah, thank you so much. So I’d love to hang out on Instagram, so come and follow me there. You can just put my name in the search bar and I will come up and you can go to my website TMZ.com. If you want to do a free exercise just append wheel after Jack Timmons dot com forward slash we’ll there’s a free exercise there and the purpose of the exercise is to not only help you to connect with your financial vision, but it’s also an opportunity to make sure that your business is designed to help you fulfill that vision. 

Hmm. I love it. 

Yeah, you got to do that after. 

Later this afternoon. I’m going to go do that. 

I love it. Okay, awesome. 

I will link everything up for everybody listening. I’ll link all the links up in the show notes for today’s episode over on my website. Rick Walmart.com. Just go to the podcast section. You’ll see this episode right there. Did you think of what you forgot you’re going to say? 

I did not. If I think of it before the show goes live, I’ll make note of it and you can add it. 

I will show it. Absolutely. And as soon as we hit you know, as soon as I hit stop, when they record, you’ll be like, Oh, I remember what it was. 

Well, it’s all good. 

Choquette, thank you so much for coming back on the show. I super appreciate you.

Thank you for the invitation. I appreciate you as well. 

All right. Hope you got a ton out of this interview here today with Jacquet. If you are a course creator, you’re an online coach, or you maybe have a membership program and you’re looking to scale your business and your impact while working no more than a 25 hour workweek. That’s exactly what we help you do inside of my accelerator coaching program. This is for established online course creators, coaches and membership creators. If this is one on one coaching, by the way, group coaching and a mastermind experience all wrapped up into one program, we just help you flat out get results and we surround you with other amazing online entrepreneurs who were up to big things just like you are. And so if you’re looking for my eyes on your business, go check out. You can actually do two different things. You can email me Rick at Rick, Mull, Radio.com and just share what’s going on in your business right now. And I can I’ll get back to you or you can go learn more about the program, watch videos of current and past students to learn more about their experiences over at Rick Morty Forward Accelerator. All right, my friend, thank you as always for tuning in today. Super appreciate you. Hope all is going well. And until next time, my friend, be well. I’ll talk to you soon.