Today I’m welcoming the owner of WebSavvy, Mike Rhodes, to The Art of Paid Traffic. WebSavvy provides services that drive performance on the channels that most directly impact digital ROI, such as Google AdWords.
We’ve talked about Google AdWords on the show before and awhile back I began asking around for the go-to person when it comes to this topic to bring on the podcast. Mike Rhodes is a name I kept hearing, and you’ll he’s the perfect person to share more about the massive opportunities with Google AdWords (that I know are being overlooked by a lot of people).
Mike gives some great tips on these opportunities and which businesses AdWords are for – and who maybe shouldn’t be spending money on them. He talks about the changes he’s seen in online advertising the past several years, the keys to remarketing, and he also takes us through how he would market a hypothetical business that I ask him about.
You’re going to hear Mike explain why when it comes to Google AdWords, you really don’t need to make it difficult but you do need to understand your limitations and know when it is the right time to get help from a team of experts.
On the Show Today You’ll Learn:
- How Mike got started in Google AdWords – and the two books that changed the way he thinks about business and money
- Why he doesn’t focus on Cost Per Click and what metric matters the most to him
- How to use Google to tell if people actually want what you’re selling and the many ways you can use AdWords in your marketing
- The importance of diversifying your advertising beyond just Facebook
- Why Mike feels so strongly that when it comes to advertising using Google, everything starts with tracking!
- What you absolutely need to be doing now if you’re an E-comm business
- The top questions to ask when interviewing agencies to work with
The Accelerator Group Coaching Program
I’m super pumped to introduce and invite you to my brand new exclusive 12-month group coaching program — the “Accelerator” — to help you finally take your business to the next level.
I’ve been getting a ton of requests for more direct business building mentorship and coaching from me, so I’m excited to announce this new program!
I’m living proof that when you surround yourself with bright, driven, like-minded entrepreneurs, you create an opportunity for enormous growth.
And I want the same for you.
The exclusive Accelerator 12-month group coaching program is based on the framework of High-Level Coaching, Community, and Accountability.
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Take a screenshot of your listening to this podcast on your phone and share it in your Instagram story, and tag me in it @rickmulready. When you tag me, ask me the biggest question you had from the episode and I’ll respond to you on Instagram.
Links & Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
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Transcription of Today’s Episode:
[00:00:00] I’ve never really been too excited because Tom to say you say because vanity metrics right. I mean what matters is the result obviously and can you get all contemplate the most of whatever it is profitably for that clock.
[00:00:19] The show or bring the best tips tactics and strategies for using paid traffic to grow your business on autopilot. You also hear what’s working and not working right now. From a top winds and online marketing so they can get more leads in sales every day without. Having to empty your wall in the process. All right let’s a bit to.
[00:00:42] What is up. Welcome to the art of pay traffic podcast Rick Mulready here. This is episode number 178 and I am super pumped about today’s episode as this is one that I’ve been looking forward to sharing with you guys for a while now. We don’t talk a ton here in the show about how to use google adwords to grow and market your business. I wanted to change that for a while now and I want to do that by bringing on one of the very best in the business. One of the very best in the world actually when it comes to Google AdWords in his name is Mike Rhodes and Mike is the owner of an agency down in Australia called Web savvy. Basically I started asking around several months ago who the go to person is when it comes to leveraging google adwords to market and grow your business and Mike’s name kept coming up time and time again. So I got connected with him and I am pumped to bring you his wisdom here today. Now when I say add words I don’t necessarily mean just search terms and you know X Sponsored listings. Today we dive into how to leverage Google’s whole product suite. So in addition as search we also talk about things like shopping ads and display and remarketing and YouTube and Gmail add so we cover it all here in the episode so you’re going to learn how might get started in Google AdWords. And then the two books that really change the way that Mike thinks about business and about money. We talk about the importance of diversifying your advertising beyond just Facebook.
[00:02:19] We talk about why he doesn’t focus on the cost per click and what metric matters most to him. Instead Mike talks about how to use Google to tell if people actually want what you’re selling and the many ways that you can use AdWords in your marketing. I also like I put Mike on the spot. I throw in a random business you know who’s going to do this I throw in a random business to him and ask him how he’d market it with words that’s always fun. Mike shares the very first thing to do when considering using ad words to market your business. We also talk about who AdWords is probably right for and who it’s probably not best for. We also talk about what you absolutely need to be doing right now if you’re an e-commerce business and a whole lot more. So I just got back from a retreat for a mastermind that I’m part of I know is up in Laguna Beach for the past couple of days and I’m recording this I literally just got back a few hours ago and I don’t know what it was about this particular tree but it was super helpful for me this time around. And I mean they’re all really helpful but for some reason I got a ton of great ideas this time around and I cannot wait to share them with you and also implement them in our business here. And I’ve always tried to surround myself with other high performers and it’s I mean it’s so cool what we did an exercise this time around where everybody went around and shared.
[00:03:47] We were all broken up into different tables and at each table we shared one or two things that’s working really well in our business right now. And then we picked the best of those and we shared them with the entire group. So it is so cool we can all get together like that and share what’s working in your business. I walked away with pages of really cool new ideas and also a feedback on what we’re working on here in our business so I cannot recommend joining a mastermind or group coaching program enough. A lot of fun and I mean always good to hang out with other people who are up to big things in their life and in their business and share ideas and get feedback and stuff like that. So just want to share that with you at the end of this episode. I’m going to share with you how you can learn more about my accelerator group coaching program which is off to an awesome start getting a lot of questions around that so I’ll give you some more information about that. Also before we dive in I wanted to acknowledge and thank everybody who has been leaving a rating review for the show over on iTunes and I want to acknowledge one person in particular for a recent review that they left they said awesome show highly recommend five stars. This is from Jay Barshop Jay. Thank you so much for this review. Jay says Rick and his guests provide some incredibly actionable and compelling content spotlighting the coming trends in absolute best marketing tactics to help you effectively grow your business. Highly recommend listening and subscribing to the art of paid traffic.
[00:05:18] If you want the knowledge and mindset to get ahead of the curve and reach your overall business goals as a result so big thanks to Jay Barshop and everybody who has left ratings reviews for the show are there on iTunes. If you have not yet done that and you like to support the show I really appreciate you taking a second to do. It’s a big help and to help more people and reach more people with a show over on iTunes. So thank you again for everybody who has done that. Without further ado let’s go hang out with Mike Rhodes.
[00:05:53] Mike welcome to the podcast. How’s it going man. Nice to be here and for inviting me. Absolutely. It’s I’m great. I’m grateful to have you on the show here we been trying to set this up for a little while and when I started asking around about who is the go to add words person your name came up several times. And so psyched to have you on the show here and talk about some talk about some add words and as you just talking about before we hit record here you know we talk a lot about Facebook ads here in the show obviously. But I think there’s not I think I know there’s a massive opportunity that I think it’s overlooked from people when it comes to ad words you know. And so I’d love to dive into that you know the opportunities and the types of businesses that AdWords are right and maybe wrong for to be testing out and stuff like that during this conversation here. But before we do. Tell us about yourself you’re down there in Australia and Australia. Talk to us a little bit about you know what you’re doing right now and sort of what your background is.
[00:06:52] Wow. I’m a reformed Pommes so I grew up in the UK. All these cool English palms. Ok I was back to rewrite history so I left there a while back and I was for a while. Always loved the business of business. On the way over I stopped in New Zealand for a bit. I ended up setting up a business that ended up staying there for a little bit for three months day for three years. I grew that up and sold it because of two books that gave me the Eamon’s revisited by Mr Goba and the cash flow quadrant by Robert Kissel and those two books changed the way I thought about business about money about a whole lot of stuff. I can’t really remember how I thought about those things before reading that. That was what got 19 years ago I’m just going to ask you when when was that yeah 19 years ago you had 99 started business last millennium when some of your listeners were being born. I want to go ahead. So I’ve always loved that. I’ve always loved helping people with that business. I became a Nemeth coach after that to try and help people systemized business and how Sakata because I was just terrible at getting clients for it now and rocking and they’re nice and green going boat and sold old business. I’m going home systemised your business. You know photo from. But that tells me how they were like. You can leave now. Can you give me more costumes. Yeah what. Yes that’s Mudgal five what we have to start at the beginning right.
[00:08:18] Roy I’m not allowed to sell you five yeah we have to stop here. The systemised things winds that day. You can leave now does the polite version. And then also a Perry marshal present. Tablets in 2004. Oh mike oh this is it. This is what they all want and need not only show that to people that are looking for you to only pay if someone’s interested enough to click on this ad and of course back then it was five cents all day long it was sure the good old Google had. Yeah but I decided to stop paying Guba an insane amount of money at that point. And while I didn’t sell the agency straight away. I started helping people here and they have a case to be here and helping with that business. A friend of mine ended up giving me half of his business to consult. I want to get 50/50 with you. Come on in. We ended up selling 100 grants with a staff and three and a half weeks with my first EP was again really.
[00:09:09] So that’s what he wanted to partner with you because of your knowledge of the words at that time which I noted at that time was about three weeks old.
[00:09:18] Said when you come in and try and teach me how to do this.
[00:09:21] Sure I don’t want to learn it but let’s go fifty fifty. Yeah.
[00:09:26] And you just need 100k in three weeks. Yeah.
[00:09:29] What kind of business was that we were selling boots ugg boots boots which is very rarely Yeah it was taking off back then you know Paris was getting photographed wearing them and yeah every American teenage girl wanted them. So just before Christmas in 2004 it went absolutely crazy. I learnt the hard lesson of customer service and having a good manufacturer and a bunch of other lessons from that because we ended up you know that ended up being a horrible horrible business to be in and took a couple months to dig out of that hole.
[00:09:59] But I knew the Atwoods had worked. And long story short I set up the agency not too long after that and we’ve been going around about 10 years. So you went right from that into building and agents are creating agency at that point not pretty much how I ended up wandering off for a year and a half to help run his business because it was an opportunity to put myself on stage and to get practice public speaking which Kiyosaki had told me a few years earlier was a really important thing to do. You know I remember him telling me that you can’t sell one to one it’s too slow you need to be able to talk to lots Spiegel once you need to be able to sell one to many. And so this opportunity came up that I’m talking about that okay I’ll do that verb it. I’m talking about hardwoods and talking about digital strategy here in Australia actually for a radio company ended up doing this gig onstage for about nine years for a radio company which was interesting because obviously they were at the very other end of the spectrum of the line should really make anything and I was the sort of digital friendly guy that came in and spoke to their clients.
[00:11:07] Were you primarily focusing on local types of businesses.
[00:11:12] I guess back then it was like if you think of any business that you’d hear on the radio I mean a lot of them were National because they were big enough to have a you know that the people that the radio station would take away to Vietnam or Fiji or Hong Kong wherever it was these things were they were obviously at the top sort of 5 10 percent of those radio clients you know a lot of them were national. Yeah but some of them had you know two three stores locally. We had builders people selling blinds and doors and shadowless screens and lawyers and any business that you know you can imagine really sure the business is on the straight and Edwards worked phenomenally well for those businesses not many people were pure Econ. but I’m nosedives Yeah. So it was I was learning as I was going in opposite a year or two ahead of a bunch of other businesses and we just had a ball. It was just so much fun.
[00:12:05] How is it I mean the question that he’s following my mind right now is how has it evolved. But man we could talk for hours about that I guess like What’s so different now that you’re excited about that. And I guess on the flip side of that is what do you wish you could do more of now that you could do that you can’t really do that you could do a whole lot of before obviously the costs have risen over the past several years obviously.
[00:12:32] But it’s a bit yeah what are some of those important. I mean I remember having a client and even this is going back six seven years ago. Not anymore but even back then it was 80 to 100 dollars a click. I was never really been too focused on the CPC because of vanity metrics right. I mean are matters is the result obviously. Can you get contemplate more or whatever it is profitably for that client and for all of our clients. I’m very thankful to say that yes that that’s you know that’s what we did. Month after month after month or what do I wish. It’s a great question. It was simpler back then. I often use this slide my talks of like a little kid sitting in a toy plane. The dashboard inside of Google 10 years ago was like one of those little toy planes Apple dolls and a couple of switches. Now it’s like the cockpit of the space shuttle it is a million buttons to press and dolls and it’s far more complicated. Google has to keep trying to simplify it into taking a lot of control of a life from us on an absolute card carrying control freaks. I don’t like them dumbing down the interface to try and make it more appealing to a wider audience. They are trying to get more page or yup but taking away a bit of control.
[00:13:51] What types of what are some of those things that they have taken away. We talk about control there because I didn’t want to ask you about the interface because that’s always been a big challenge for people are you know a big roadblock you know because you look at you know look at Facebook ads and as manager power editor is once you get it get in and get this you get the hang of it it’s pretty straightforward. But Edwards does not have that reputation and I do know that they have made strides over the past little while too to as you as you say like make it a little bit easier but I’m really anxious to hear what they feel that they have. What does that some of the control have taken away.
[00:14:26] It’s funny because we were right in the middle of this this whole new interface launching. I asked Randia people in the in the industry. I’d say at least half maybe more 80 percent of agents is pretty dirty about the whole thing. A lot of people have not started playing with you in the face. One room vote is Google going to turn off the old one this month. Obviously everybody is just going to have to because they can’t support two shirts indefinitely and they’re starting to move features bit by bit or only roll out new features in the new interface to force us all over. Obviously AI and machine learning is a huge part of the way forward for them. So I look at it and they’re looking at it.
[00:15:08] I know that there is so much data available. And up until now we’ve given you some of those. So which device somebody might be on. Yeah. Maybe which city they’re in. Obviously you know the time of day and have they been to your website or not before. Basically if there were no remarketing that’s pretty much all of the levers that we have in order to say I want a bit more or less Google. When you jump on the Google Chrome and do that search they’re looking at 70 million bits of data in real time to figure out to show where on that page why even if they could give us 15 30 bases that they said you’re talking about you’re not saying 15 million you’re talking 15 15 15 data points.
[00:15:53] All of the context that they’re looking at all those previous searches how they browse whether this is someone that typically converts or not whether they’re on the phone on the train right now whether it’s on holiday or sitting at work. They know that they’ve been at that sure all of those plans are on the mission learning. They know that they can give us all of that data even if they could the other day that I would be in say they would if it’s complicated now it would just be ridiculous. So they’re saying look this is just too hard. This data is Ali predictive and it helps you as an appetizer be more profitable. We just got to do all the eye on machine learning for you. You just stand back out the way and a can is an audience. And I think that’s starting to take quite a few pages from face book of simplifying that and more audience targeting and moving away bit by bit. KEY keywords not dead yet. Bit by bit sort of trying to move away from this pesky thing you have to do when he set up and you app to account you’ve got to be going to write these ads you got to choose key words used is confusing keyword planet then you’ve got to choose some bits and then there’s all these lines and things like you say this is confusing interface.
[00:17:01] All I can bit differently based on age and gender and device and city and and and and it’s so confusing and they want more business is using the platform and they know Facebook and Amazon are coming at them and taking a chunk of. Yeah well potentially take it chunk of cash are they still growing at 20 percent a year. Yeah I worry too much about Google’s bank balance right.
[00:17:25] Right exactly. So with all that do you. Do you think that it is even as it is right now. Is it an opportunity for the quote unquote everyday entrepreneur. You know the normal quote unquote business owner who is looking to diversify their traffic. You know maybe they’re doing Facebook ads and I do want to get into what sort of what businesses do you think it makes sense for in addition to e-commerce of course but are there other businesses that doesn’t make sense for but just sort of is it still an opportunity for someone to go in there and do it themselves or is it still kind of you know if you really want to do outwards the right way and you kind of need to be hiring somebody like yourself.
[00:18:09] Yeah obviously I’m biased on that I’m sure. I don’t want to be self-serving but I think that it used to be a game of 80 20 you know ahead of the top 20 percent would take 80 percent of the spoils. It moves over the past few years to a game of 95 5 and it’s fast approaching 99 1. If it’s a game of 99 1 if 1 percent of the appetizers are coming away with 99 percent of the wins then it’s very very difficult to try and learn to do that yourself. I love teaching on an absolute. I’m a teacher you know. So I teach a few hundred agencies how to do. Oh yes. If actively competitors. But the world’s a very big place. Sure. Because it is a confusing thing if you are a small business owner. I wouldn’t try and learn it yourself it’s too easy to melt a credit card and get your ass on it. Yeah and you competing with a whole bunch of smart agencies and this has always been the hard thing and I’ve always struggled with this because if you’re a small business and you want to spend 500 bucks a month because you know you need to diversify you can be solely dependent on Facebook and you giving them a couple of grand a month. You know you need to be drawing Atwoods. People are searching for the stuff you’ve got. That’s how you know if it’s useful. That’s your original question. Yeah yeah.
[00:19:25] People jump on Google and search for the stuff you’ve got if there’s a longer consideration phase of the thing that they’re trying to buy. Whether that’s a house or a microphone or a stand up Desco and all the stuff I’m surrounded by that I didn’t just wake up one of are going to buy that. Off we go. Anything where you are searching and looking and revisiting those Web sites. It’s going to make sense for. But it is very hard to do that itself. But I do think businesses need to diversify. I think there’s gonna be a lot of talk. We’ve talked before we hit record about traffic and conversion hung up on a date as podcast. But I think they’ll be a lot of talk this year about this need to be more than one was it. DAN KENNEDY I think is where the quote should be attributed to. You know what is the most dangerous number for any business. Yeah yeah. One customer one platform Yeah. All of that. So yes come it absolutely makes a ton of sense for me. Google is starting to show those little shopping ads more and more and more. More than half of that clicks last quarter. You know reading through the holiday buying period where all those little shopping ads on the front page of Google Google make more money from those than regular text ads now. Especially that time here. Yeah and there’s so much to Atwoods I think when we talk about Google Atwoods most people still think of those little text at the top of the page.
[00:20:48] Yeah but you’ve got search you’ve got shopping you’ve got display which are ads on two million plus Web sites and over a million apps you’ve got remarketing younker YouTube GIMA. There’s a lot to it and that’s probably one of the things that does make it even more confusing with Facebook it’s fairly easy to hack. I want to start by showing on mobile and showing in the news feed. Let’s go.
[00:21:12] If you if you I mean I’m so glad you brought that up because I didn’t want to talk about that. Like all the different opportunities because yeah when most people think of ad words these days they do think of it just the search term results. But as you mentioned shopping display remarketing YouTube Gmail. We have talked about Gmail ads here in the podcast in the past and the opportunity that exists as well as YouTube and so forth where would you recommend if a business is thinking about doing ad words for you and diversifying where where do you think they should start. Obviously it’s going to be different for everybody. But you know just from what you see sort of across the board is there sort of you know the again it’s a tough question because every business has different needs. Is there if you were to pick one kind of a direction to start with what would that be.
[00:22:01] I would say stop looking at the assets that you already have. So if you have a well known brand if people are looking for you searching for you then that could be your name it could be the name of your podcast or the name of your book or a product that you have. Then start just with that. Yes I had a large number of those people were going to find you anyway in the organic search results. Yeah but if youre not bidding on your brand name there are probably three or four people who are and their ad is sitting above you. Yeah and especially on a mobile phone. You could be a scroll to a away from actually finding your business start there is that cheap is clicks you going to get. Its the hardest thing to mess up. Its a great way just to dip your toe in the water and learn about things like tracking and how you know if its working and understand things like Caywood intent and you know some of that nuance that you need as you start to spend more money. Yeah start then look at what assets do we have. We already have some traffic in which case remarketing should probably be towards the top of that list. Do we have a big customer list or prospect list that should be try showing ads to them because you could if you are going to do youtube you could choose to only show videos to people that are already on that e-mail list.
[00:23:15] People that have already been to your Web site in the past 15 days or just the people that clicked on an add to cart button on your website in the last 15 days if there’s enough of them to make it interesting. So what assets do you already have. Brand traffic lists stop there. If you come you need to be doing Google Shopping ads we call them Pele’s product listing ads now called Google shopping. It’s just picking up money off the table. I mean it’s again harder to get wrong. There’s a lot set up you’ve got to get your Web site talking to this halfway house. The data sitting in the middle called Google of merchants into that into Edwards to pay someone to to set it up get it going. None of Edwards is set and forget. I want to be very clear about that it is a little bit more set and forget than some of the other Yangzi drive almost Brydie that the last thing they try these days is what we call non brand search. So choosing keywords that are the things that you sell the products and services that you sell they tend to be more competitive they tend not to turn into customers or leads as much in other words they don’t tend to convert as well. And there’s a lot more nuanced to that you have to sort of understand where someone is in that that mythical funnel. Yeah. They just browsing around are they comparing things are they pulling the credit card out of the pocket and ready to buy it. Leave that that till last. And if you are very familiar with Facebook then maybe sort of dip your toe in with a bit of Google display. It’s similar.
[00:24:48] It is a very different mindset still when we talk about it in the office all the time. Yeah. That’s similar.
[00:24:53] They operate on a completely different tack little bit more about that because so we have the two things that you mentioned there are two of the things that you mentioned there that I want to kind of hone in on a bit is the remarketing and the display. Can you kind of sort of break those down for people in terms of what they are and where they kind of fall into all this.
[00:25:12] There’s a wonderful quote by Packy Fullah who says if you want to teach you give people a tool. So I’ve created a tool for the display network which I think is the best way to get around it understand it. Ken McCarthy a mutual friend of ours saw and went This is the best explanation of Google I’ve ever seen.
[00:25:31] This is wonderful which I will take with me to the Great. Thank you. I also showed it to the global head of Google display network end of last year she had actually just bumped into it and passed it all around her team and thought it was wonderful without realizing it. Nice read it said there was never that way. So they didn’t drink it they didn’t take credit for it but it is on the google docs that they realize that if you just want to get to the display grid dot com that is like OK. So you can go to my Web site. It’s just a Google spreadsheet I can get access. You don’t get cook eat out remarket. I can see someone’s just about on this or that might be. But I love this. Every time I open this up there’s half a dozen people looking at this plate already.
[00:26:15] But let’s say you a dot com Duke Ellington up on the show. That’s awesome.
[00:26:19] And what you’ll find is down the left hand side I’ve got a list of all of the different types of ads that you can charge as a banner ads text and these things called responsive ads which is where Google is kind of making it up as it goes along e-mail ads and various types of YouTube ads. And then across the top are all of the different ways that you can target those ads and how you tell Google where to show your ads and broadly lists three buckets like the green ones which is where you are send to Google. Go target my ads based on the content that’s on that page. So you might say go find me pages that match the theme of the iPhone cover and Google will go out there across this two million websites and all of the billions of pages that are in there and go find pages that are talking about that could be an article in The New York Times tech section. It could be a blog or forum. It will graph on those pages and put your right next to that stuff. The big assumption being that if someone’s reading content about that that probably more interested than the average bear about actually doing something about it might be boring. Yeah. Then we’ve got all of the blue stuff over on the right hand side which is all of the audience type stuff so all of your different remarketing audiences yes people that have previously been to your Web site people that have viewed one of your YouTube videos people that have subscribed to a YouTube channel.
[00:27:39] People that are on your e-mail list that we talked about before and dynamic remarking which if you’re doing shopping again is an absolute must. Showing people the exact product that they’ve just been looking at for the next couple of days as they wander around the web and then the bit I love is the interest targeting in the middle which is maybe a little bit more similar to the Facebook marketing that many people are familiar with. Google have this broken into a bunch of different categories but essentially it’s either a long term interest or a short interest or long term interest and maybe baseball basketball or the outdoors or investing. You’ve demonstrated to Google over a long period of time because surprise surprise Google is watching everything that we do the videos that we watch the websites we go to. It’s not reading our e-mails anymore. They stopped doing that recently. But it’s looking at basically everything today. Plus of course on Chrome and Android. So you know an awful about an awful lot of it. And then the really interesting one in there is that short term interest and they call it the in market audience. There’s actually a whole bunch of Taps across the bottom of that state as well. So there’s a list of all of those in market and those affinity audience is in that is about 500 of them and so you can go and have a little look today and go wow let me open that up now. What have we got down here. So apparel and accessories athletic shoes or luggage or a whole bunch of different motor vehicles.
[00:29:03] These are saying people that are in the market you not just the carpet in the market for an Audi or in the market for a new CRM system. If he has anything to do with that so you can say Google is looking at. Your search behavior your browsing behavior in a very very recent past one to two weeks of time prime and saying these are people that are in the market right now for this thing and is about 500 of say.
[00:29:32] So where would they show. So taking this data where would they then show the ad would it be a display ad or is it whatever you are choosing whether it’s a video or on the exactly that Oaktown that left on site whatever type of ads you’ve decided to watch that campaign it’s going to show that top of that.
[00:29:49] But it’s not going to show in a particular place now. Now it’s sprawling about the person viewing not where the ads. And so it’s going to target the person’s eye. This person is in the market for that. Now they happen to be on G.M. right now. They happen to be on huge legal to happen to be on Oprah DoCoMo CNN or one of these two million sites. I’m going to show them an ad because what I know about them. Not what I know about the Web site right now. Gotcha. It’s 500 of those. Yeah. The future of this is. And this is very new it’s sort of it’s still in beta right now. But I think it’s the future for display partly because they’re taking a leaf out of Facebook’s book but also because of the power of their machine learning which is to allow us to now build our own in market audiences and by by building this little theme and giving Google sort of half a dozen keywords and maybe a couple of domain names to say people that are interested in this sort of thing because maybe what you sell isn’t on this list. Maybe it’s close but it’s not really the same. So now you get to your own audiences and say people that are interested in this in a very very recent past month. Don’t forget just in the last two weeks people have been to these sorts of websites and I’ve been searching for these sorts of terms. GoPro ads in front of the eyes.
[00:31:02] That I think is going to be hugely hugely powerful as the machine learning gets better as they get more data. Sure. That’s the direction Google heading in.
[00:31:11] So it doesn’t really sound like there’s not really one business that sounds like that. It’s not. This is not right for. Because there’s so many different opportunities here from the display network to Gmail to YouTube to search to shopping.
[00:31:26] I guess if I was a takeaway cafe I probably wouldn’t be using it you know or impulse purchase. You know stuff like very low price point very low consideration. Sure. But yes that’s probably what 5 10 percent of businesses everybody else can probably find a way and just diversify you don’t want to be I don’t think in 2019 anthropos and dependent on Zark.
[00:31:50] Yeah yeah well I mean as far as the display network we kind of started to touch on that and this is more of the stereotype the old fashioned old school just like the banner ads and stuff like that. But you had the opportunity to show up from a retargeting standpoint just kind of like what you were just talking about and a you know some people might think a little bit of a creepy way. I think it’s more of just conjecture irrelevant.
[00:32:16] That’s the key that we’ve been talking about going for seven years and I’ve always said that the key is to stay on the right side of the creepy line. Yeah and you don’t follow people the way the FBI full of people not the way the group got into the road. Well as people the way they feel awfully that’s 10 bucks in a helicopter and you don’t know that you’re being followed. Always somebody different behind you so if you have a wide mix of ads. Yeah. If you are seen in a bunch of different places it’s not always the same message and always the same ad. It’s not nearly as obvious that this business is following you around and if you try different benefits and different calls to action but different messaging then sooner or later you’re going to figure out what resonates with the bulk of the market. But remarketing done badly is I know you just came to my Web site.
[00:33:06] Come back come back and say over and over and over again. That is creepy. That is creepy. Let’s do a hypothetical I’ll put you on the spot here. Let’s do a hypothetical business and just kind of give you just throw some things at you and just kind of how you would approach it from an ad words perspective let’s just say I’m a I’m a local yoga studio and you know I have classes throughout the day and I’m trying to get people into my obviously into the studio.
[00:33:35] I have an e-mail list of let’s say 6000 people. And you know I get a little bit of traffic to the site. Not a ton but I get people coming to the site to check out you know schedule classes and find a bit more about the instructors and so forth.
[00:33:52] How like how would you will look where where would he start with that.
[00:33:59] I didn’t give you a heads up as to do this.
[00:34:01] No I’m going to sort of think back because it’s pretty rare that we work with businesses like that dies just from a budget point of view. And so we don’t have much of a brand but a few people would be knowing them by name and we still start there. All right Frank I’m bi and if someone is looking for you by name you do know those three competitors in the right up. You’d load that email list into Google might not be usable it might get you much but hey it’s better than nothing and you can build and Facebook tend to look like in Google terms a similar audience to that find people that like this and that’s just about to improve. The rumor is that’s coming out very very soon next few weeks in Beijing. The hours are similar. Woody. Yep at the Ewha. But the algorithm behind it what a similar audience looks like guys could link google in that regard at this point it’s much much better. Yeah. You haven’t got much graphics ready to read about remarketing. But down the track you’re going to be thinking about how the little bit of traffic that you get is very valuable to you. And so a small marketing campaign. It’s not going to do a whole lot for you don’t expect to spend a lot of money probably couldn’t spend more than a hundred bucks a month on something like that for the remarketing bar. But you should have it because that little bit of traffic that you get is going to be valuable to you.
[00:35:18] And then having just said that brand search is probably the hardest to get right. I would probably be happy about that if people are searching for where I am in Melbourne it’s a place called South Yarra South Yarra yoga studios South Yarra Pilate’s South Yarra yoga classes. Yeah all of that stuff. Now if I didn’t sell apparel I would make sure to say to Google if anyone searching the yoga pants yoga mat all that stuff don’t show my aunt. Can you give would say just as we have keywords to say Go show out to these people. Negative cases I don’t check my hands to these people. If I’m selling then obviously I’m going to set up some some shopping ads and try and compete with that. It is very hard for that small business to compete you know. But this is a game of majorities. Yeah yeah if you are a small Lutana we see these there’ll be some type of small business be a hairdresser site that’s called their own product line that maybe they read temptresses book and I’ve got some stuff in from China and that’s not the badge over the front of it. I want to run subheads. Why would anybody buy your product for the brand that no one’s ever heard of it at these huge national brands. Yeah the majority of people are going to go for the huge national brand ad which is a game of majorities so when you’re picking a even just Aiki what you’re thinking about with the majority of people searching for this word would they be interested in buying what I’ve got or actually most of them means something else.
[00:36:45] By that are they looking for something else is it kids doing homework projects and research. If they’re searching the singlehood yoga that could mean a bunch of different things to a bunch of different people. Wouldn’t that you wouldn’t be. You wouldn’t choose Arabic because it it to many things but a little bit more detail like yoga studio yoga class that sort of thing yeah if you didn’t offer teaching yoga and you wouldn’t chards for yoga teacher training or anything like yoga certification or not a market I’m familiar with as you can see I put you on this island definitely know it.
[00:37:22] Well you mentioned you mentioned the very beginning there as far because I know the people that listen to this right now are thinking about costs like how much is this cost and sulfite that. And you mentioned in the first minute overcomer sation talking about that the cost per click you know our vanity metrics basically it really comes out to what does it actually Qasimi to get a customer or to get a sale. So talk a little bit about that in some sort of hopefully simple ways for people to be tracking that stuff. Yeah yeah.
[00:37:53] I’m so glad you asked that question because really everything starts from made with with tracking you think about tracking first. You work out what you’re going to measure first and then you start throwing a bit of money at it doing what it is doing setting up all these campaigns even if you’re only spending 500 bucks a month if you weren’t tracking anything flying blind and you don’t have a hope of improving the whole game with this is to do more of the good stuff less of the bad. So for something like that let’s stick with that example you probably have two main calls to action that you want people to have some sort of form on the site says come along for a free classroom for a 14 day membership or something like that and some sort of form on the website that people are going to fill in. And this Perea phone number that you won’t be able to call to book in for the same thing. So you’re going to track those two things when someone fills out a form. For some reason whipped is on his love to have this little bit of green text pop up it says thanks. We’ve got someone to be in touch soon and you stay on the same page and nothing really changes. I think that’s confusing for the user. It also makes life harder for you to track. You have a job number on what’s called a thank you Page. When someone feels that they have will have them go to a different page and start to set up the conversation about what happens next.
[00:39:06] It means you can track it much more easily you can still track the other stuff but it’s just harder. Now you’re looking at how many people came to my Web site compared to how many people might think page Google gives you a little bit of code which you put on the page. And every time someone lands on an thank you page if they came from one of your ads that page just having a chat back to Google and saying hey got another one put a take next to that keyword but a tweet makes it out next to that campaign so that you can measure what did well and what didn’t. On the coal side there’s a million different options. Google have a free service which is actually pretty good especially in the States. It’s a little bit flaky outside of the states but it’s a pretty good place to start if you wanted to spend 10 to 50 bucks a month. I have really really solid tracking you could use a service like coal rail. Much love the world now. The better operators but there are loads. The list of those essentially they what’s going to happen is when somebody comes to your Web site if they’ve come from Atwoods a phone number and so it’s going to change it to one of Google’s numbers or Corail number whatever into a trafficable number so that if someone calls that number again same thing can happen and the machine can jump back in. I would say somebody the person that just search for this. But isn’t that just clicked that they just called you.
[00:40:21] Now you don’t necessarily know what happened on that call but you can say if the call last longer than 30 seconds treat it as a good call. If it’s less than 30 seconds let’s call it a bad call. It was wrong number wrong. You can set that up within Corell. Yeah that’s cool that’s cool. Or even just inside the Google system Google will give you free telephone numbers many as you need. Now the difference is they won’t tell you what those numbers are though just change the number on your side. You get to know them for sure. Sure. Yes for each box chorales a pretty good solution. Yeah with Kurow you can also then record those calls should you want to. Every business owner seems to love the idea of recording calls. I don’t know if they ever have the time to go listen to them. I think I want to know if Sharon reception’s taken. I better I better call them just in case. Maybe one day I’ll go back and use it as a training room. All right. But just start with that and measure the number of calls you get. Measure the number of people that actually fill out your form for whatever it is they are offering and link that data back into Edwards so that you know which keywords which campaign which accounts whatever lead to success and which don’t do more the less of that. That’s that’s really the game is it though.
[00:41:37] Is there an opportunity for it to auto optimized for you now. Oh absolutely. You know if you don’t have to be doing yourself like Google’s learning. You know just similar to Facebook Google learning from an algorithmic standpoint learning you know just like you just said what’s working what’s not and optimizing Exactly.
[00:41:52] And as with everything with machine learning the more data the better where that really excels is if you are getting 500 conversions you know it could be a call Fonville a Sile whatever it is for you if you are 500 of those a month Google is going to love and Google is going to have plenty of data to get stuck into. Yeah. At the other end of the scale 15 a month is kind of the minimum acceptable and then it struggles. You know sometimes it can work really well sometimes it can go horribly wrong. The machine at this point is a little bit like a toddler. It can surprise you. But it needs supervision. Don’t want to trust it blindly to do everything that you tell it to do. Yeah but it’s getting better and getting better every second. Now they’ve got a law that data to work with because they have access to every single Edwards account in the entire world. Yeah yeah. So it’s getting better fast.
[00:42:43] I want to ask before we start to wrap up here I want to ask an advanced question. And so when it comes to what is your recommendation on. You know we always want to be if we if possible looking at our online marketing or our marketing efforts in general from a holistic standpoint. So how can we leverage Google AdWords to be retargeting people based on their Sions on YouTube based on their search based on Facebook. You know how can it start to form a complete picture basically of what people are doing right and getting down to the old adage of showing people you know the right ad at the right time based on what they’re doing and you know what they’re looking for. Is there a simplified like high level way to explain how somebody might be able to do that.
[00:43:36] So software attributes should I start off of that with that advanced question and I ask for a simple answer.
[00:43:45] If I could have less than 10 minutes I’ll probably be a believer. I think attribution Yeah that’s the thorny question that everybody’s struggled with for a long time. Google I think they’re making great strides in that. There’s a brand new tool about to roll out supposedly Q1 this year. So we should be only a few weeks away from Google attribution which is kind of a simplifies a very very simple interface. We got a sneak peek last year. They spent all of that time rearranging the plumbing that happens behind the scenes to give you a very simple interface to say basically how well all of these different areas are working for you. So it’s looking at your Facebook and YouTube and everything else. And they’ve set it up probably or above the line stuff as well because you’re talking about remarketing. So I do want to stress that remarketing is not just limited to showing ads again to people that came from Atwoods. It’s all of the traffic. I think probably most of your listeners are very familiar with that but some people still get confused with that so if you’re running a lot of Facebook traffic right now and a lot of your traffic is coming from that source you can certainly remarket to those people using Google’s display network. Yeah not limited to just happens traffic.
[00:45:01] I’m not sure if I’m answering the question why are you using it. I think more of it is just you are confirming that none of them are Wame attribution. Obviously a huge huge topic and messy met. Yeah but the possibility of of basically based on people’s actions you know like you just said right there if someone’s coming from Facebook you can retarget them remarket them with Myrt remarket to them with with words of some sort.
[00:45:27] The best the best to give a bit more information on that is if you’re a business do a google search for remarketing great. That’s the best information I can give on an app but I wrote a blog article it’s actually on the digital market a Web site just search for free market and great movies which were remarkably good microbes. Pretty sure it will come up at the top of Google. Maybe if you try that and share notes and help but that I think will give. It’s a very visual way of thinking about your remarketing to visualize who’s most likely to be the most profitable person that you could start to show remarketing ads to. And then how things sort of get less likely to be profitable from there. So it’s about time it’s about behavior and you can base your remarketing based on really any kind of behavior on your website site you like it could be the number of pages that someone has looked at it could be how long they spent on the site did they click on and add to cart button or did that make it all the way to the checkout page. You can. It’s so amazingly complex. If you want it to be you know that this huge huge power that. But by the same token you don’t have to start complicated. Don’t get too cute straightaway. SD There is just as anyone has been to Passant in the last 30 days. Well let’s try showing them and see what happens. Zaat really really basic guide which goes with all of this stuff. Start with a handful of keywords.
[00:46:48] If you get into branding or Amarante don’t stop confusing the hell out of yourself and try to add 2000 keywords to an account.
[00:46:56] I love it. You just kind of. You just answered my question because my final question there for you was what was some what is some parting words for the audience here just to kind of when they’re thinking about add words but you just summed it up right there. Just starting with the basics and build it.
[00:47:11] Yeah yeah. Don’t overthink it is wonderful actually for a company here in Australia. It could be under a thinktank under thicket under under which they could start small and don’t go complex.
[00:47:25] If if you find that it’s addictive which many of us do we play with. Yeah then yeah okay maybe I can spend a bit of time on this. If you’re one of those people that just hates looking at all of this data and all of those charts then you know you should be outsourcing I know enough hopefully you outsource it all. Yeah they have to ask good questions of whoever you hand the reins to be after tell them what metrics you need. What reports do you need from them to enable you to know if it’s working from a higher level for your business. You know what sort of return you need if I’m tipping 10 grand in a month 20 40 grand back 20 80 20 to 120. What makes it work. Yeah but don’t have crazy expectations too.
[00:48:09] I can’t and without knowing what you just mentioned there what are say the top three questions that somebody might want to ask if they’re looking to if they’re you know interviewing potential agencies to work with. What are what are some of the top questions that they definitely want to be asking.
[00:48:25] I would start with how did you learn. I have you spent your own money to sell your own stuff. Are you always been playing with someone else’s money. It’s one of the reasons that I love. And our reps are amazing but many of the people you know I’ve had so many stories of you know when you get stuck you can jump on a live chat or you call up Google. And the advice that you can be given by some of those people very loudly and often is pretty bad. But if someone’s run their own money their own stuff they’re going to care so much more. They can understand it and have much more empathy with you as a business owner in terms of what that takes. I would probably ask about how much that embracing the new stuff. I mean Google changes every other week. Yeah there’s always something new. If someone is stuck in the sand and doing stuff that worked beautifully three years ago and they’re still doing that and just refusing to look at that and use them because that is really well red flag red flag run away run away. And I think the huge benefit that we offer is the amazing team that’s sitting around me. There are so many different skills when it comes to Wildwoods that trying to replace all of that with one in-house person or trying to do it two hours a week yourself. You know you got code you’ve got persuasive ad copy you’ve got the detail and the techie stuff you get data analysis.
[00:49:53] There’s a lot of different skills that was one of the first things that I figured out that my first employee actually that was brilliant pivot tables and excel. Not the person to be writing possibly as a bad copy. Yeah yeah. As a copywriter right now another person thing. Yeah. And that’s just evolved over time. Now it’s it’s just amazingly skilled team that all have different areas that they’re great at and that’s very hard to do in-house to sort of ask about what the capabilities I guess that exist. Because our job is to reduce the overall from that business not to keep giving a homework list. Every other week of oh we need this we need this and that can you ask devs to do this. It’s our job to take that on and get that sorted out. So looking to what they do best which is run the business.
[00:50:42] Yeah I love it. Mike’s super super helpful. As I told you at the very beginning I was honest with you like I kind of knew where I wanted this conversation to go but at the same time like it was just like me and you sitting down for coffee and chatting about this and we covered a lot of different things and it’s quite clear your expertise in this in this area. So super appreciate you coming on the podcast to talk about all this stuff with us. I want to make sure that people can connect with you. What is the best place for people to reach you.
[00:51:15] Send me an email. MIKE At. Web savvy dot com today. Abey as a v.v why dot com that you all find to be on Facebook.
[00:51:26] I suppose I probably shouldn’t push that guy but I’m on messenger every day like everybody else. Dot com slash Mike writes me.
[00:51:34] Let’s be friends and ask me questions you might regret thing that I’ve heard stories from fast guess that they were like holy cow I had no idea the the PC effect.
[00:51:46] So no but I linked it up. It’s very gracious of you to make it web savvy dot com dot a you and B.Com for Facebook dot com for such like Rhodes.
[00:51:57] I guess for those that want to learn. That’s why credit agencies have agencies every dot com site that is a place for me to teach. What are we doing here and check the war stories and it’s. It’s really turned into an amazing community of absolute rank beginner marketers to some incredibly smart marketers are respect hugely and it’s not just me answering questions every day. I’m in there every day with a group and so everybody is helping everybody else but also cost a number. I absolutely love that community. It’s been it’s been wonderful. So if you want to learn more come into that if you are currently running Edwards and you think you can do better. Hit me up and yeah we can do an audit for you and see if we can improve things.
[00:52:41] Awesomenauts agency savvy dot com link everything up in the Schoenaerts we had the display display gred you talking about the the remarketing grid and then the three ways of to take and touch the link all shows up in a show for today’s episode Mike. Again thank you so much. Looking forward to meeting you in a couple of weeks here in Sydney insomnia trafficking conversion I’ll say Feb. 7 might.
[00:53:03] All right. I’m going to try something new here on the podcast. Here’s what I want you to do. Take a screenshot of your listening to this podcast on your phone right now. And I want you to share it in an Instagram story. OK. And when you do that tag me it’s my Instagram is at Rick Mulready so tag me at Rick Mulready. And when you tag me ask me the biggest question that you had from today’s episode and I’m gonna respond to you there on Instagram. OK so just to recap real quick google try this out. Take a screenshot of your listen to this podcast on your phone there and share it. Share that screenshot in an Instagram story and tag me at Rick Mulready. And when you tag me ask me the biggest question that you had from the episode and I’ll respond you’ll answer your question there on Instagram. Okay. Going to try that out. Can’t wait for it. Also as I promise at the top of the show of having a blast in my accelerator group coaching program which a lot of people have been asking about now this is a 12 month group coaching program that’s designed to help you take your business to the next level and in the accelerator. We focus on three core elements of growing your business the foundation the marketing and the scaling and people in the off the accelerator are at different levels there. So we focus on what you need the most help with specifically for your business. And this is also based on a framework of three key things here.
[00:54:30] High level coaching community and accountability. And I created this program because those three things have been integral in allowing me to grow my businesses seven figures in four years and I don’t say that to brag or anything like that. I’m just sharing with you what’s possible when you surround yourself with amazing coaching as well as community and accountability. So I want the same thing for you. So when you join the accelerator program you get a 12 month per Sly’s game plan for achieving whatever your goals are in your business and your life. We do monthly group coaching so we do two calls a month which includes training which includes I bring on guest experts and also we do hot seat strategy sessions for people during those calls we do to fly private retreats here in San Diego. You also get a VIP experience and a VIP day at one of my FBAR live events here in San Diego yet regular personalized sales funnel critiques ad critiques copy reviews launch strategy critiques as well as a private Facebook group where you’re getting help from a coach of my team as well as me on a regular basis and a whole lot more so if you think coaching support and accountability is something that can help you fast track the success of your business that I invite you to check out my accelerator program which you can do over at Rick Mulready dot com forward slash accelerator also link that up in the show notes for today’s episode which are at Rick Mulready dot com for its Lasch one seventy eight.
[00:56:10] Thank you again so much my friends for listening to the show. They really appreciate it. I’ve got another awesome episode coming your way in Episode number one hundred and seventy nine. So until then my friends keep testing your paid traffic to find out what works for you and your business and then do more of what’s working and I’ll see you in the next episode.