I’ve got a good one here for you today. Well, I think every episode is good, but especially today. My good friend and our copywriter, Brittany McBean, is on the show.
Brittany is a brilliant conversion copywriter and launch strategist. She writes all the best words, the greatest words, beautiful words. Bigly words. Multi 6-figure launch words.
She loves writing launch copy that makes big bucks.
This is her third time here on the show. I’ve been working with Brittany for about a year and a half, and she’s completely helped me transform the way I communicate my brand.
She’s here to talk about all the uncool marketing tactics that have been taught for years, and that have been used by so many people. Up until a couple of years ago, I also used them.
That’s what I was taught. That’s what I learned; all the unsavory marketing tactics that get taught, that so many people use, and that people are done with.
When I say people, I mean your audience. The people you are looking to serve. They’re done with these marketing tactics. They’re jaded with all of the false scarcity, et cetera, et cetera.
People just want real. They don’t want the—I don’t want to call it sleazy—but the uncool things that have been happening for so many years that we all know, and that so many of us have used. Again, I used them for years.
If you’re still doing it, zero judgment. Our goal today is to give you a different perspective, an ethical way. Marketing and selling your offer in an ethical way.
All of that, and more, in today’s episode.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Marketing tactics you should stop using
- Why we need to give people more autonomy in their decisions
- What happens when we are honest in our marketing
- The psychology behind customers’ decisions
- Why less sales pressure makes buying decisions easier
- Why your marketing copy needs to be specific to your audience
- Brittany’s 3-step process for making money
Links & Resources:
- Robert B Cialdini, PhD: Influence, New and Expanded: The Psychology of Persuasion
- The Art of Online Business Podcast: Simple Hacks for Writing Copy that Converts, with Brittany McBean
- The Art of Online Business Podcast: The Secret to High Converting Launch Copy, with Brittany McBean
- DM me on Instagram
- Visit my YouTube channel
- The Art of Online Business clips
- The Art of Online Business website
- The Art of Online Business Podcast website
- Check out my Accelerator coaching program
Brittany McBean’s Links:
Got A Question You Want Answered On the Podcast?
Ask your questions or let me know if there is a topic or guest you’d like to hear from in the comments below or click here to visit my contact page and submit your question there for a chance to be featured on one of my upcoming Q&A episodes.
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[00:00:00] Brittany McBean:
People make big decisions and big changes when they are not pressured. If you’re telling someone, “You got to do this thing, you gotta do this thing,” they are more likely to get defensive and resistant.
When you say to someone, “The ball is in your court. The decision is totally up to you,” they are significantly more likely to make a big decision in that conversation.
What’s up, my friends. Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you, as always, for tuning in today. Super appreciate you.
I’ve got a good one here for you today. Well, I think every episode is good, but especially today. I’ve got my good friend and our copywriter, Brittany McBean on the show.
Brittany is a brilliant conversion copywriter and launch strategist.
This is her third time here on the show. I’ve been working with Brittany for about a year and a half, and she’s completely helped me transform the way I communicate my brand.
I asked her to come on the show and talk about all the uncool marketing tactics that have been taught for years, and that have been used for years by so many people, myself included; up until a couple of years ago I used them, too. Because that’s what I was taught. That’s what I learned. All the uncool marketing tactics that get taught, that so many people use, and that people are done with.
When I say people, I mean your audience. Your people that you are looking to serve, they’re done with the marketing tactics. They’re jaded with all of the false scarcity, et cetera, et cetera.
Brittany goes very, very deep with her with her copywriting clients. She talks to their students. She talks to their prospective students. She does focus groups. She talks to a lot of people and gets their feedback.
People just want real. They don’t want the tactics. Stuff like the, I don’t want to call it sleazy, but just the uncool things that have been happening for so many years that we all know, and that so many of us have used.
Zero judgment. Again, I used them for years. Right. And if you’re still doing it zero judgment, right. Our goal today is give you a different perspective on, you know, an ethical way. Marketing and selling your offer or offers in your business. Right? We talk about things like, you know, how to use urgency and scarcity ethically.
We talk about things like countdown, timers. We talk about FOMO. We talk about pricing plans and payment plans and. All different types of things here today in this conversation. And I don’t agree with everything that Brittany says, and you’re going to hear that today. it’s a great conversation and I really I’m excited.
It’s for you too, to hear it. Before we dive in, we are accepting applications for our Accelerator coaching program. This is for, established course creators. Or coaches, or maybe you’re a teacher entrepreneur, this is a one-on-one coaching group coaching and a mastermind coaching experience all wrapped up into one.
And by established that, that means you’re already doing at least a hundred thousand in revenue in your online business. And you’re looking at. You’re not really sure what next steps to be taking though. You’re feeling overwhelmed, likely you’re feeling stuck. You’re not really sure what to be doing.
Right. And so what we help you do in Accelerator is we help you increase your profit, increase your impact with less hustle.
All right. It’s application only again, go to RickMulready.com/Accelerator to apply. All right. My friends without further ado, let’s go hang out with Brittany. McBean.
Brittany welcome back to the podcast.
I forget what number. This is number three. This is what you get from this
[00:04:32] Brittany McBean:
Round of applause. I have a fancy new road pro that I got for the end of the year to up the level of, my audio here on the podcast and all kinds of fancy new well sound effects.
Hopefully we don’t have to do this at all during our interview here.
[00:04:52] Brittany McBean:
I can guarantee you you’ll want to press that at
I might do that though, just for the heck of it. So welcome back to the show. Glad to have you back here for those, for those people who have not yet heard either of the two previous episodes when you were on, by the way, the episode where you’re talking about how to write copy that converts was one of the highest downloaded episodes of 2020. I don’t know if you knew that.
[00:05:20] Brittany McBean:
That I it’s gotta be a fluke. Right?
It’s just it’s real. It’s
[00:05:27] Brittany McBean:
Like, did you like give away a free car in that episode? Did you do like a Rick’s favorite thing? Like there’s gotta be.
I was like, she needs downloads on this one here. but we are, we’re gonna be talking about, the things that you see. I mean, you work with a lot of. Online course, creators and coaches, and you do a lot of their copy for launches, for their funnels, et cetera. And you’re seeing, you’ve seen, especially over the past year of 20, 21, a big evolution in what’s working and what’s really not working anymore.
And that’s what I really want to talk about here today. Kind of like, have you share some of those things that you see in that historically quote, unquote, have.
[00:06:11] Brittany McBean:
Or have been taught if you will. That really do not work anymore because the landscape has changed and people are, they’ve just kind of become a lot more aware of what they’re willing to accept and what they’re
[00:06:28] Brittany McBean:
They’re more jaded.
Yeah. So before we dive into all that, let’s have you reintroduce yourself to everybody. Cause also we have thousands of new listeners since you were last year on the show.
[00:06:40] Brittany McBean:
So should we start with like a lot of new faces around here? If you could add re-introduce myself, do that
We don’t, we don’t need like the full on or like the Marvel origin story,
[00:06:51] Brittany McBean:
I don’t have one. no, I’m still in the, the, before part of the superhero story. There’s no after, yeah, I mean, very simply I’m a copywriter, a conversion copywriter, and a launch strategist. which basically means that I do. Strategy for people building out, funnels and in launching online educational programs or, you know, coaching opportunities and, a sales person with a keyboard.
That’s, that’s really it. I have a little micro agency, which means I work with myself and one other writer and a small team, and we are consistently turning out, giant
Funnels and lunches, and it’s really, really fun and really exciting. And it’s really cool to see, that like the similarities and the really unique differences across industries, because yes, a lot of my clients have online education, but, you know, One’s a CFO and one’s a realtor and one’s a veterinary oncologist.
And you know, and so seeing these different things in the unique audiences and understanding what works differently for different people and then seeing the same patterns, it’s a really, it’s a really cool and exciting place to be that I think a lot of us can’t see just with our own businesses, no matter how in tune we are with what’s going on in the world and what our people want need and our data and all of that.
And you also, I mean, for those people who don’t know you rewrote, you’ve pretty much rewritten my entire, every piece of. Brands in my business over the past year and a half now. I think it was the summer of 20, 20 and re I get comments all the time about people reading the, especially like, the homepage on my site. They are like, I feel like I know you from just for, just from reading your copy And as a copywriter, I’m sure that’s one of the biggest compliments that you can hear.
[00:08:52] Brittany McBean:
It is. And, and I mean, honestly, like you’re the ideal client in so many ways. And when we started working together, it was so fun because you were in this transition, but you also weren’t going from like, I don’t know what I’m doing to, I don’t know what I want to do. Right. You were like, I’ve had this super successful career in this foundation and it’s evolving and I know.
Really like the big pieces of where it’s evolving. And a lot of it is also like TBD and, and you, like, we worked together and you trusted me and I was able to see, like, this is what I’m seeing and hearing. And you’re like, but this is, you know yes. And, and this is what I want. And actually, no, that doesn’t feel right.
And, it was a really fun, like collaborative effort to kind of. Like rebrand your, D really like your messaging, you know, and that was, that was ideal. That’s my favorite kind of client to work with. really it’s the only people I work with. I’m like, we’re collaborating or this isn’t, this isn’t going to work because, it’s a team effort.
Well, it’s that collaboration that allows you to really dive deeply into somebody’s business. And like, we’ve talked about pre and previous episodes here. one of your many differentiating factors is the depth of research that you. When you work with a client, I’ve worked with a lot of amazing copywriters over the years, but nobody has ever done the level and depth of research that you’ve done.
And you still do with me and my business to allow that to come out in the messaging and the copy. And so with that, you do a ton of research for your current clients. And then obviously use that. In their launch copy in theirs, on their sales pages, their emails, et cetera. And this is part of what allows you to see and hear directly from people of like what they’re tired of, what they’re jaded with.
So let’s kind of start there. Let’s kind of use that as the starting point of the conversation about what are some of the things that have maybe been taught in the past. Or been like sort of traditional quote unquote methods in selling in launch copy, et cetera. and by the way, as you know, I talk a lot about here in the podcast about my thoughts on launching, which has very much changed over.
[00:11:13] Brittany McBean:
The past several years. I don’t, I’m personally, not somebody who is a big proponent of, okay, let’s do one or two launches, that’s it of, you know, during the year. And then the doors are closed even though somebody might want it in February, but you don’t launch until June, you know? so what are some of those things that you’re seeing that just, you know, like people are really jaded against and they’re tired.
[00:11:39] Brittany McBean:
Yeah, and well, and I think like, I can really come across like do this, not that, and very black and white. So maybe what would be really helpful before I even dive in is just to say that like, if, if you hear nothing else and it’s just funny, cause like Rick and I have argued a lot about this. Cause I’m like, we’re saying the same thing, but he’s like, no, you’re wrong.
And I’m like, no, you’re wrong. And we’re saying the same thing because what. Rather than like, do this, not that right. What I really want us to be focusing on, is it previously we as marketers and a lot of the marketers that have developed the methodologies and the strategies that we, that we follow in study.
Really gotten good at understanding what makes people buy, right? Like what are the things, the tricks, if you will, that like literally the things I can grab out of the bag of tricks that make people buy. And I want to frame this conversation around what are the tools that we can use to help the right person for your offer.
So that was someone who is. Qualified and ready to buy. They can afford it. It’s accessible to them, whatever that, whatever that price is. And they are the person who both wants and needs the transformation that you offer. they’re already aware and looking for that, right. what are the tools and the messaging that we can use to communicate to that right person, the information that they need to know to make.
A confident yes. Or no decision. Right? So at the end of the day, like the goal is after cart closes, whether it’s live or evergreen, and I truly don’t care one way or the other, I’m not a proponent for live launching or not live watching. I think it totally depends on your business and your personality and your energy and all of that.
And I think launching is terrible for most people. but at the end of that person’s experience, Did they walk away knowing like, absolutely that was not the right product or course, or coach for me. And. I didn’t send my money where I didn’t need to spend it, or that is the person that I need to work with, who can get me what I need and here’s my credit card.
I’m all in because you’re offering what I need and what I want. And, and, and so I think moving away from the grab bag of tricks and moving towards communication, that just helps people make confident decisions because the tricks were inherently invented to. To kind of override someone’s critical thinking abilities and to.
Basically entice them to buy from a place of like stress and adrenaline. And so anybody who, has maybe experienced trauma or is in a traumatic situation, or maybe someone who, lacks some critical thinking skills or has some developmental disabilities could easily be duped or tricked based on. The tricks that we’ve been taught to use, as opposed to just meeting someone where they are and saying, here’s the information you need, are you in, are you out? and so I think that’s a good way to frame that conversation before we start just like listing, don’t do this, but do this instead.
Yeah, and this is gonna be interesting conversation because I’m going to, like you mentioned before, maybe not disagree, but offer a different perspective.
[00:15:00] Brittany McBean:
Well, and one thing that you really pushed back on a lot, which I like is that like, people are responsible for their own decisions, right. A hundred percent. And so, and I think that this is about, this is about giving people more agency it’s about giving them more responsibility over their decisions.
Right. It’s like, like I was going to try to come up with like a super clever metaphor. With toddlers, because we both have a kid around the same age, but I’ve got nothing. Cause I have a toddler and I have no brain left, but, no, it is about empowering them to make more informed, more confident decisions.
It is about giving people agency and it’s about not stripping them of their agency. and so yeah, feel free. Feel free to push back and we can just chat about that, but I always love fighting with you.
I think I think it would, I think it would make a lot of sense to give somebody like, just, let’s start with one example of what you’re talking about to give them some context as to what we’re like, what all this is
[00:15:54] Brittany McBean:
Totally. Totally. And, okay, so I’ll start with, I think like the lowest hanging fruit and it’s something that’s super it’s. It’s great. Cause I don’t think that there’s a right or wrong way. And then I can just list off a bunch, but deadline funnels, we’re just going to start there. Right? The point of a countdown timer at the top of a page is to stress someone out to make them buy.
That is the point. Nobody needs to see seconds counting down and more often than not. That isn’t real. So that, I mean, that’s a whole nother thing. Like if, if your funnel is evergreen, don’t put a countdown timer that sucks. That’s Like just don’t do it. If there’s like a bonus it’s going to expire.
That’s different. Right. But like, how could you communicate throughout the material? The copy of the funnel people are experiencing? How can you let them know what they need to know to make this decision? Is it time sensors? When does that date, what does that time put that in your copy? Like in all of my launch emails for my own program, it’s like, Hey, just letting you know, like, this is the last day, this is a live cohort.
You know, this is, we’re gonna run this in real time and then we’ll launch it. Like they have the information it’s not about like hiding it from them and surprising them. It’s about like, that is literally meant to trigger adrenaline and cortisol and make people like click that buy button and then have some. You know, morning after regret. And that’s when you get those emails of like, I’ve got really stressed out, you know, it was like almost midnight And I didn’t, but I don’t really want this. Right. So like, again, it’s not that it’s always wrong. It’s that? Why is it there? Nobody needs to see seconds or minutes, but do they need to know when they have to make the decision by?
Absolutely. I tell my daughter, Hey, we’re going outside in two minutes. You need to put your shoes on or I’m putting them on for you. I’m starting the timer. Now you have two minutes to make this decision. That’s giving her the information she needs to make a good decision. Right. And so I think that’s a really good way of starting of like, we know that people, quote, unquote, need urgency and scarcity to buy.
There’s a lot of ways that we communicate that in a funnel. A lot of times it’s manufactured and it’s false. What if rather than giving them all of this urgency and scarcity, we just told them the truth. There are only this many people in this program because we really care about the quality of the people that we serve, or, Hey, this is, you can get this in six months from now, but you’re gonna miss out on this core component or, you know what I mean?
Like what, like just what is the truth that they need to make the right decision? You know, is it like, Hey, the price is going up next time. That you get this email. And so if it makes more sense for you to save your money and to buy six months from now and send a thousand dollars more than maybe that’s the right decision, but it’s saving that money is really important.
Maybe this is the right time for you, right. So it’s just like, what is that conversation? And just what information do they need with the sole purpose of giving them the agency to make the right decision? Not. Freaking them out until they punch in their credit card information with like their heart pounding, right?
Like, like we all do on black Friday when I have like three vacuums in my house, we always joke about this. Like, I literally have three vacuums because of black Friday. I don’t need three vacuums. Like, that’s that’s the we don’t need to be doing to people we don’t need, they don’t need extra vacuums.
So this is where, like I a hundred percent agree with. You know, no false scarcity, for example, giving people their right, you know, all the information right up front that we do need urgency and scarcity legitimate in order for people to make a decision. That’s just where it’s just human nature. If somebody doesn’t have a deadline to do something, we’re not going to, we just want, won’t take out.
Right. And if our job is to help people, the way that we help people they go through our, whatever it is, program coaching, whatever it might be. and for me, for one, I totally understand what you’re saying about the countdown timer. Like the seconds. Yeah. Like if it’s, you know, isn’t necessary.
No. For me personally, I like to know right upfront, like where things are, where things stand, like how long do I have to do this?
[00:20:16] Brittany McBean:
From a psychological perspective, totally get what you’re saying. What kind of action is this sort of making them well? What is it causing? What kind of reaction is it causing in them to see this countdown?
And yeah, cohort style completely different, right? Like the group starts at this time ends at this time. but again, it’s, I don’t know. I go back and forth on the countdown timer because I personally don’t have a problem with it because I’m of the thinking, like, I like to, for me personally, like, I like to know exactly where I’m at. Like, all right. If I have X amount of time to do this. Okay, cool. Right.
[00:20:56] Brittany McBean:
But if you, if you take out the countdown timer and then you have at the top of the sales page, This special pricing expires on this date at this time. And then in all of your emails, you let them know this is the pricing, this is the discount or whatever, whatever that urgency is, whether it’s a bonus or whether whatever, you know, or like an added thing.
So if that information is there, what are you missing? If you don’t have the countdown timer?
I mean, you’re not missing it. You’re just hoping that. It’s in a place where people are going to see it,
[00:21:27] Brittany McBean:
That’s what I’m saying. Like, if, if it’s at like the exact same place, you’re just not seeing that clock tick down. Do you know what I
Yeah. sure, sure. Like, I can see it as like a bar at the top that locks in place. So as you scroll it’s there, they can, they can see it and it’s not like just at the top. And then it start as soon as somebody starts scrolling, it’s gone and then they miss it.
[00:21:49] Brittany McBean:
Will say that. Sales research and persuasion. Psychology has taught us that people need pressure. Like we wouldn’t usually say it that way, but that’s still how we act. And what research shows now, especially in the world of like actual psychology, not just sales psychology and, people making big changes and.
My husband works in mental health. He works in addiction and recovery, and he specializes as a therapist with people struggling with substance use. And so he works a lot with people who are actively in the middle of making really big changes and he focuses really heavily on, on, current research and.
I’m always fascinated to hear what he’s learning. And what we know now is that people make big decisions and big changes when they are not pressured. The more agency someone has, the more, the less pressure someone has, the more likely they are to make a big or a difficult decision. So, you.know, if you’re telling someone. You got to do this, that, and you gotta do this thing. You gotta do this thing. They are more likely to get defensive and resisted. Whereas when you say, and whether it’s in a conversation, you know, a one-on-one conversation or, or reading a sales page or an email, when you say to someone ball is your. Like decision totally up to you.
I’m here. If you have more questions, I’m here. If you need something. but the ball is totally in their court and like no one is going to there. Aren’t going to be any consequences. If you don’t decide to, to move forward, things might just stay the same. And so it really is a matter of what you want, what you value the future you want, but there’s no pressure on our end people. Significantly more likely to make a big decision in that conversation. and I don’t think that marketing has fully caught up to what we know now about that.
And you’re as a copywriter, you are incorporating exactly the types of things That you’re talking about here in your car.
[00:24:07] Brittany McBean:
Sales pages, cetera.
[00:24:09] Brittany McBean:
Yeah. you know, like ethical marketing is a really big topic and I’m happy to jump on that bandwagon and talk about it. I think transparency is really important. Like we have, a client who he’s a, a CFO and, and the big numbers guy, and he literally does numbers for people’s businesses. And so when we were writing his launch, we did some really intentional things.
That really highlighted his values, like, like not adding on the four tax, which we can talk about. That’s a whole nother thing, you know, and by, there were a couple of other things that were just very much like, Hey, if I were your CFO or if I was your financial advisor, this is what I would recommend.
Right? Like, I wouldn’t recommend you invest in something with interest at this price point or with this kind of promise, you know, something like that. And so it really was just like having that conversation being really open with them about. W why things are happening rather than like, rather than putting it behind the curtain.
Right. And like, don’t look at the man behind the curtain just by just look at this big, shiny thing. You know, like having these conversations of like, this is what’s going to happen inside this. If that’s not for you, then this isn’t for you. Or if you’re not done with this and that is it for you, or if you’d rather wait, but if you want this change and now this opportunity is here, there’s no pressure, but this.
What, where is where you want to go based on your values, your priorities, the life that you want for yourself. And then is this the right path for you? If you think it is, this opportunity is here. This might be a good time to, to, you know, jump in. And it is really fascinating. I test a lot of that stuff out of my own emails when I’m launching my own program, you know, just having those like super open conversations, like, oh, this bonus isn’t going anywhere.
Like I know disappearing bonuses are super sexy. Like anybody who joins gets this bonus, it doesn’t expire. Or like I know urgency and scarcity is really exciting. Guess what mean. In six months, this is the date. This is going to be the price, which one’s best for you. Right. And, and the, or like having the opt-out right at the top and just being like, if this isn’t for you, like, you don’t want anything to do with this product or this launch, like click this button, you don’t even have to read another word, whatever that thing is, where I’m just having that conversation with them.
I get so many emails back that people are just like, oh, this is so refreshing. Like thank you. Or I really appreciate this. Or like, When I have those calls and I tell people like, I’ve even tested it saying, like, why don’t you wait until next time? Why? Don’t like, if you’re on the fence right now, if you don’t seem super confident, why don’t you just wait?
Like it might, the price might be higher, but you might have the opportunity to save between now and then, you know, it might be a better financial decision for you and your family and like nine times out of 10. I get people an email back, like immediately. They’re like, you know, I don’t want to wait. I, I know that like what could happen between now and then it’s too big.
I’m in, you know? and so obviously, like, I think there has to be like an air of like trust and transparency and, and yes, people do need some information, right? So that it’s not like, oh I was going to buy. But at cart closed last week, if they need the information, but like, I don’t know. I think that a lot of what we knew about how people make big decisions.
And right now we are So many options that everything’s can be a big decision, you know, regardless of the investment, the, the less pressure people have, the more likely they are to jump. and I think that that’s important to know, you know?
Yeah, for sure.
So what other outside of like a countdown timer?
[00:27:35] Brittany McBean:
What’s on the list.
[00:27:37] Brittany McBean:
Yeah, I can tell you a lot of the things. So the other, the other perspective that I have, I think is really interesting is so like, I obviously do a ton of research into my client’s audiences and I learn a lot about what they’re seeing and experiencing and wanting and needing. And so, you know, like the financial client, like we know how those people think.
So it’s really easy to say what’s going to really align with their values, but we also do user testing, which is just like a blind, like basically I send. website into this program and I’m like, all right, five people record themselves answering these three questions. Tell me what you think about it. So like not target RD, not target audience, you know, just, but like just unqualified people, giving me their opinion on a sales page.
And it’s fascinating because people will look at that countdown timer and be like, Hmm, that’s stressing me out. So I’m going to click off or they’ll be like, I don’t think that’s real. That’s probably not real. Or they’ll look at something like price stacking and they’ll say. If this was really $5,000, like, why are you selling it to me for 97?
I call Like they’re like saying this stuff out loud. And so that, that’s kind of the other thing that. When, you know, you have your ear to the ground and you get to see how people react. And you’re like, oh wow. People are jaded. Like we’ve, we’ve pulled the tricks for so long that like they’ve caught on, they know the magic tricks.
Right. And so, you know, I think price stacking is another one of those. If something has a real and legitimate value, like you’ve, you actually sell your time at this, you sell this program. Fine. Absolutely. Let somebody know the value of what they’re getting. You can get it on my website for this much. Or I usually charge it for this much, or I used to charge this much for it, but it’s included in this.
Right. But doing this like one hour of my time is worth $5,000, but you get it today, you know? And it’s like one not believable, but two it’s also like, literally not real because you’re not actually selling that thing. And then you have this like value stack of like $2,000 for product that’s worth like.
97 and nobody believes that And it’s just like, it’s kind of disrespecting the intelligence of the reader, you know? I brought up the poor tax. That’s another thing. And this, this one’s controversial because there are legitimate. business owners with a lot of integrity and very high values who do, sales at a high enough level or at a high enough quantity that they have enough defaulted payments that it does cost their business money to chase down those default payments, whether they’re using a third party, that’s a whole nother conversation.
Whether they’re doing it internally, like it can cost an entrepreneur, a business owner money. To have someone on a payment plan. So when they’re charging that interest, they’re saying like, I’m not losing money by you having a payment plan. Right. And so if you are legitimately losing money on defaulted payments, that interest or that poor tax is an option, but I will tell you most people now, when they’re looking at a sales page, they feel like they are being penalized for not having as much privilege or access or resources as someone else, you know, the pay-in-full bonus or like.
You’re saving 20%. I don’t feel that that is a good way to move forward when it comes to our pricing structures. I always ask my, my clients to include payment plans, you know, as, as many as you possibly can. That makes sense. Right. and I always try to encourage them to do it without interest. And if you are getting a lot of defaulted payments, then you’re either selling to someone who can’t afford the.
Right. And so like you’ve stretched your payment plan out so much. And now someone who can’t afford it as buying it, or you need to focus on your student success because they’re not in there getting what they need, therefore they’ve stopped paying for it. Right. Like, I think that there’s another problem that needs to be fixed.
Before you just go up in the interest. Right. So it’s not that like, you should just be losing money. It’s. What can you do to make sure that people aren’t defaulting on it? Like, why is that happening? Right. If it’s happening at such a large scale that you’re losing money, what’s going on there, you probably need to raise the price of your program, or you need to shorten the payment plan, or you need to work on your student success.
You know, the FOMO, I think is another, is another real one. Like we’ve kind of talked about that a little bit, but that like, like you’re going to miss out and you’re not going to get this. And it’s really shaming and it’s really stressful. And that does really cause people to buy from a place of adrenaline and fear.
And I don’t think that that’s really respectful to our people, you know, like I would never talk to my daughter that way. I would say like, Hey, if, if we don’t do this, we’re not going to get this opportunity. And that’s your choice. Or I might say like, I really want to do this with you. And so this is something I’d really liked, but I can’t tell you what to do.
Right. And so I think that that’s a perfectly great way to have. A conversation with your students, pretending like your evergreen is live, obviously that’s just stupid. And people know like, when it’s like this ends today, but they just got served a Facebook ad. They’re like, yeah, that’s not how this works.
Like, even if they’re not in a marketing place, even if they’ve never been through a funnel before, like they are skeptical. Right. And so. You better make sure that everything you’re saying, like, you can show the receipts, like this is worth this much. This cart really does close this day. You know, like, and for my clients where I’m writing evergreen funnels, which I love evergreen funnels.
I want somebody to be able to get something whenever they want it. If we are using some urgency and scarcity, we’re saying like, Hey, this price ends on this date at anytime. After that date, you can get this membership, this program, this coaching, this course, but it’s going to be a different. Ball’s in your court, right?
Maybe this is more along the lines of like ethical versus what’s not working because I honestly, everything that I’m sharing are things that I see people going like, eh, no, thanks. Right? Like this is literally affecting the bottom line of my clients and maybe not my clients, but if entrepreneurs, like, I feel like, I am my client’s audiences advocate.
Right. But I also am responsible for their ROI. So I’m not going to do all this stuff that like. Money. I’m not responsible for it, but you know, I care about it and you know, I don’t want to take money out of their pocket. but something that I think really needs to die, a slow, painful death is like that really vague messaging that kind of tells everyone, like, no matter who you are, like, do you have a face?
This is for you. Right? I find it highly unethical because then people can’t make that decision. They can’t decide, can I afford this? Do I want this? Do I need.
Wait, what are you talking about?
[00:33:54] Brittany McBean:
Like the like, well, first of all, like step into your best life, get unstuck. You’re feeling stuck. Let’s get unstuck. Let’s like live your best life.
Like what the does that mean? That means literally nothing. And I could write that copy for you. I could write that copy for a veterinary oncologist. I could write that copy for, an app developer. Like it means nothing. And so the person reading it can’t fully decide like, yes, this is for me. So instead of saying.
Step into your power, live your best life. Like paint that really specific picture, help someone understand whether they can afford this or not. Like in the FAQ section, I on a sales page, I will never not have something along the lines of like, how do I know if this is right for me? Or how do I know if I can afford this?
Not answering with the, you can’t not, not afford this or what is it? Oh, you can’t afford not to do it. That’s what it is. It’s Like you. can’t afford not to do it. No guess what? Like money is not a limiting belief. Like that is a very real circumstance for a lot of people. And there are a lot of people who cannot afford whatever you’re selling.
Whether it has to do with, resources or desired outcome, like helping someone decide whether this is right for them. So if you are a blank, blank, blank, blank, and blank, like this is not for you. However, if you want blank, blank, blank, and you are blink, blink, and blink, like this is right for you. Or like, If buying this program means that you have to like take out another credit card, or it means that like your family has to make big changes.
This is not right for you right now. And so being really specific and granular about what the transformation is about who this is right for, you know, and not having these like broad sweeping, like, like this is for anyone who wants to blank, and this is for everyone and you can’t afford not to do this, and this will help you.
Like finally be happy again. Stuck and like, what, what does that mean? Like, I’m stuck in my skinny jeans and my depression. Like, those are two very different products. Like one’s Welbutrin and one’s like sweat pants. Right. both of which I have in and on my body right now. Like I think that, that, you know, that like that is withholding information.
Before you go to the next one.
[00:36:05] Brittany McBean:
I know I’m done. I think I’m done for now.
Cause I know that people are listening right now. They’re like, Rick, wait, are you just not going to say anything? talk to me this further. but I,
[00:36:18] Brittany McBean:
If there’s one thing I can do, it’s steamroller conversation. So
Go back to no, no, no. I wasn’t saying that. Let’s go back to, you mentioned the poor tax and you’re talking about like default payments and stuff like that, which I totally agree with the other side of it, I think is when. So if you have to say like a 12 month program and people are making payments, but it’s a 12 month program, it’s not, you know, a membership where people can just like, oh, I’m outta, you know, I can cancel fine.
[00:36:48] Brittany McBean:
Purchase with like multi-pay.
But somebody could come in and like three months into it, like they could come in and get.
When, if you will, within literally within the first two weeks, let’s say. And, but the goal of why they joined a program is, and I’m thinking of Accelerator or our, you know, our coaching program, which is 12 months. And if someone comes in, like I had, I had a woman, join Accelerator in. October. I think something like that November early November of, just a few months ago, and she essentially paid for Accelerator in 11 days of just the few things of being around the community and hearing, picking up on some conversations that were happening and like, oh my gosh, that’s a great idea.
I’m going to go do that. Boom. and so. She’s not the type of person that would do that, but she could command and be like, all right, I’m out of here. I know what I’m doing now, but that’s not the goal of the program.
You know what I mean? And so I don’t look at it necessarily on the default, you know, issue because we really don’t have that problem with Accelerator.
It’s the way I look at it is more, so somebody is deciding like, Okay. I have everything I need after three months. When in fact they agreed to the 12, like they signed an agreement for the 12 months and it’s kind of like to protect against that. Now I’m not saying like, I want to keep somebody in there because like, even though they say they have what they need, I’ve never ever, and I’ve been doing some form of this type of program for.
Six years now, not, not in its current iteration, but never before. Have I had an instance where, well, here’s a perfect example. I had, I did have somebody who joined the program in early, 20, 21 and then a couple months in, they were like, I’m kind of getting everything I need right now. And so they’re like, I’m wondering what next steps are.
And so we had a call about that and mapped out the next, you know, what their next, what the, what the path would be. And they were super excited about it. And then I later understood later in the year that, This person wasn’t, happy with any of the programs that they had done over the years, but yet it was the best year that they’d ever had in the business.
Now I’m not taking credit for it. Right. But I will say, I do know for a fact that the business completely transformed as a result of what they came in wanting and what was delivered and what they continued to achieve. As a result. And so all this to say, like, that’s why I do that because I don’t think it’s fair to the other people in the program for someone to be like, oh yeah, I’ve gotten all this amazing stuff. And then I’m outta here. When they, you know, agreed to this is the program. Does that make.
[00:40:15] Brittany McBean:
No it does. And actually let’s talk about Accelerator for a minute because it is such a great case study of everything I’m talking about of focusing on the people in the offer first and not reaching into the grab bag of tricks to sell something. And so, like, I am literally talking about like charging interest to someone who cannot afford to pay in fall, as opposed to.
Being so clear about what the transformation is, what the program is, what the point of the program is, how long the program is the price of the program, the peanut plan, having them sign the terms and condition, nothing is like swept under the rug. Nothing is like muttered under, you know, like, oh, and by the way, you have to pay for it.
But you know, you’re going to eat whatever. And someone saying like, I agree to that. And then if they change their mind, they assigned a legal document. You gave them all the information they needed to know. That’s a conversation that can be had, but I don’t see anything inherently, unethical or disrespectful or wrong in that.
What I love so much about Accelerator and. Really what you’ve allowed me to do, which I think speaks a lot to your, like how much you care about your students and how much, you know, like your area of expertise and, and your, your goal and your value for your students is what you’ve allowed us to do is over really two years is to continue to dig into this program and say, okay, What is the student’s experience?
Where are they hitting some rough spots? Where are they not feeling like their expectation was met? If that happens, you know, or are they feeling like it is worth the high ticket investment? Are there things that we can do to help them better achieve the outcome? Right. It’s like, what is the outcome that we are.
Promising and very clearly describing it, all of the sales material and all of the content and all of the conversations. Right. And then, and you know, like we’ve gone back recently and we did a values audit. Like you worked so hard to do that internal work to like, what are the actual policies and practices?
That communicate and enforce our boundaries. And then how do we put that in the copy? Right. Not the other way around, because that’s not how you do values. You don’t say you do it first. And then you tell people you did it. And you know, that there were like policy changes. There were changes to the offer based on that, you know, we even recently went back, like we just updated the page again, because you said to me like, Hey, I have a lot of women in my program.
And often, you know, in the past year, Quite a few of them have had maternity leave or where somebody has needed a bereavement leave or somebody got COVID. And I want to make sure that, you know, I’m not getting people that just want to like kick tires and, you know, Whatever get over it and stop paying.
But I want to make sure that if like life happens, like we’re still honoring and respecting them. And so we came up with a policy of like, what does it look like if somebody takes a mat leave and isn’t working their business, you know, while they’re in Accelerator. And then you’re getting super clear on that, like internally with your terms and conditions and their like, boundaries around that.
But I think that, and you know, when, when people are like, Hey yeah, You know, more Rick, you were like, awesome. We’re doing these audits. And like, I mean, I’ve read your surveys and your feedback form for the copy. And people are like, these audits are incredible. Like what I learned in 10 minutes, like blew my mind or like that AMA session, you know, like, like you literally said, what do you need to make this worth this investment to get you the promised outcome, to get you the experience you want.
So it’s not like those other experiences you’ve had that you didn’t like, you know, and then, and this is the value and these are the terms and conditions for that experience for that promise for this program. and I think that that is the way to do it. And there aren’t like, we didn’t pull out anything from the bags of tricks, you know, like on your sales page on like, yes, there are persuasion principles based on.
Copywriting strategy and sales strategy, but like you optimized the offer and the experience and the promise first and foremost. And then we literally just wrote the words being like, if you want this, this is how you get it. This is what it looks like. This is how much it costs.
Yeah. and I tell people a lot like, oh, this isn’t right for you or, it’s either we’re not right for you. Or, you know, you’re not quite ready for what, for the level of this program, but here are some things that you can do.
And then, you know, cause I just feel like I’ve had several people they’re like I want in and we’re doing a disservice to that person if we just say, yeah, we’ll take your money.
You know what I mean?
[00:44:56] Brittany McBean:
Yeah. And on your sales calls, I would imagine you’re not saying and correct me if I’m wrong, but I would imagine on your sales calls, you’re not like, and if you buy, now I’ll throw in this and this and this, and you have to let me know by, by this date and this second, like, of course, it’s like, Hey, we’re holding your spot and you guys are really great about doing like non-compete and all of that.
But like, I would imagine that the pressure isn’t there and so. It’s interesting because what I see is that, like what works so well on these sales calls for higher ticket items, whether it’s a service, you know, like it’s $20,000 for me to write your launch. I’m not on that call, like selling people. I’m not telling them like by now and this time, and then you get this and then you get this.
It’s like, this is what this looks like. Do we align with your values and your goals? You know, this is what this experiences and all of my clients that have high ticket masterminds, like their sales calls don’t look. How we write our sales pages and our emails, you know, or how we’ve been taught to. So like if it scales up, why doesn’t it scale down, right?
Like, why aren’t you telling someone and you’re 1 97, you know, $200 program. Like if this isn’t right for you or you’re not ready for it yet, or we’re not right for you, or you don’t align with our values, you’re not a good fit for our community, or you’re not safe for our community, or like, you can’t afford this.
And I don’t want to do that to your family or what, like, whatever that is, you know, It’s not scaling down. We’re still using like the knife twisting when we do like pain agitation solution. And we’re like sticking the knife in and twisting it. And like, you know, making people feel really ashamed and you haven’t done this yet, and you’re still doing this.
And you know, and we’re still saying like by now, and, and you can get all these, extra bonuses that I’m throwing in and they’re going to make a huge difference. But if you buy later, you won’t get the bonus, but you’re still gonna get the same promise and the same outcome, you know, and like, all, all of this stuff.
It just needs these intimate and like respectful conversations need to scale down into our sales content. And we’re still like, Beating like the old dead white man salesperson horse over and over again. And you know, you read like, I’m sure you’re familiar with Cialdini’s book, right? influence.
Yeah. So if anybody hasn’t read that. It’s a phenomenal and an incredibly interesting book. And this psychologist, Robert Cialdini wrote a book on the six core principles. He did a ton of research, a ton of study field trials, all this stuff, and wrote a book on the six principles. Persuasion. Oh, I, what does he call us? persuasion professionals or something like, that use to get people to buy in his book was a cautionary tale. It was written for the market is written for consumers and trying to tell them like, be wary of capitalism. This is what marketers will do. And you want to know who uses that?
Marketers. They’re the people that hired him, did the people that recommended him to the people. And it’s a great, it’s a great book and it is interesting to know how people make decisions. But again, it’s like, are we using those from our bag of tricks?
I didn’t know that it was written for consumers. I had no idea.
[00:48:00] Brittany McBean:
Yeah. Like one of the first things he talks about is like the law of reciprocity and how people feel obligated to give you something if you’ve given them something. And I think that’s so gross, like, like to give someone. I was literally taught. Here’s a freebie, here’s a free opt-in. So not so that they like get value or they get a taste of working with you, or they have an accessible way of understanding what you do or can get a quick win.
But because they then feel obligated to give you something like their credit card, right? Like that’s so gross. And we’re still using those tactics in that way, rather than saying, like, who do I want to be in the world? What are my values? How would, I want to be like, sold to, how can I kind of break the cycle and still make a lot of money because I’m selling to the right people.
And guess what, when you sell to the right people, you get really, really, really, really good case studies and really good testimonials and social proof is one of his biggest, those big, like weapons of influence, right? Like, the more right people you have in your program, the more word of mouth and more social proof, the more like actual credibility you have. it, just makes sense. It just makes sense.
So I’m sure that people are listening right now or like okay, Brittany, but where do I find these people? Where do I find my quote, unquote, ideal people for whatever, my course, my program, my coaching, whatever.
[00:49:22] Brittany McBean:
Yeah. I probably talked about this in both of our other conversations. Cause I feel like I’m never not talking about it, but the order of operations always, always, always lives and dies. the money-making order of operations is audience offer copy. So you start by sitting here, people getting to know them, and there’s a lot of ways we can do that. And I think we talked about it in one of the episodes that I’m happy to chat a little bit about now,
I’ll link it up in this.
[00:49:46] Brittany McBean:
Yeah, I can’t remember which one, but you study your people then, which is what we did. Then you look at your offer and say, how can I optimize this offer not to sell, right. That’s that’s the trick. I’m not optimizing it to sell, optimizing it for my people.
How do I deliver the promise? How do I give it to them in a way that they can digest it and use it? What is actually helpful to them? What do they need? What do they not need? Right. How do I optimize this offer for them? And then. Then you just write the words being like, I made this thing for you. It’s what you said you wanted and, stuff.
Good. And I’ve probably said this before, too, because it just makes so much sense to me. He said don’t find customers for your products, create products for your customers. I’m paraphrasing a little bit, but like, if you’re just starting with like, Hey, I have this idea, like this money-making idea, like here’s this invention I’m taking to shark tank, right?
Like, and I’m just so like, let’s write a funnel and like, let’s get it out there and make a lot of money. That’s a problem. You don’t have people, but if you’ve, if you’ve been teaching and you’ve had some products and you’re out there and you’re listening to your people and you’re like, oh, they really need this thing.
Or my offer could really be better if it did this, or they’re not experiencing this part of the transformation, how can I, how can I do that for them? Like, then you’re cooking with gas, then you’re making money. And if you were. Read all the marketing books learn all the tricks. Like sometimes you have to know the rules to break them, but if you’re thinking like how can I create the right offer for the right people that delivers the promise that they’re wanting and needing, and that I do best.
And then how can I just give them the information that they need to know in order to make a confident yes. Or no decision? Like. You’re really cooking with gas. And I know that this sounds like it’s just like super altruistic and it’s all about like ethics and values and it isn’t a duper prioritize like people over profit.
And I do care about like how accessible our offers are and whether. Providing safe and inclusive places like that is my priority. And my conversion rates, my client’s conversion rates are so stupid high, like stupid off the charts, like three, five times industry average. Of course there are flukes. Of course we missed the mark.
Of course we have to like, you know, rework and optimize some stuff, but it’s kind of great that what makes you a better human is also the thing that will make you more money. Nine times out of 10.
Yeah. And I want to start to wrap up here just to touch on just to kind of drive the point home. you mentioned before about FOMO and how some people use FOMO.
What’s can you give us like a specific example of what you’re talking about
[00:52:17] Brittany McBean:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, thinking, you know, like if you’re using language, like if you don’t do this now and then like painting that doomsday picture or using like, shame, like, aren’t you so tired of being fat, you know, like, aren’t you so tired of being ugly? Like what, I mean, I know that’s really awful and triggering, but like that, that messaging is out there.
And that thing that’s like basically telling the person that if they don’t buy your offer today, Their life is going to go to Right. And, and rather than that, how can you say, how can you help someone uncover or confirm their values or their priorities? And yes, you can do that in copy, even when it’s one sided.
And just say like, if this is the life that you want, this would be a great thing to do. And now might be the right time for you. And you can even say like, like you can do. FOMO from your end, like, Hey, after this cart closes, I’m going to work with my cohort for the next 12 weeks, because that’s what I’ve promised these students. And if you’re Not in there, I can’t serve you in this way. So if you’ve if you want to keep working with me, like, this is the way to do it. Right. but I think if the goal is like, I think we have to be honest with ourselves And say like, am I trying to induce fear, anxiety or shame? Like how many times are you saying you?
And not as. Not with empathy, but like blaming, like pointing a finger. Like, would you say that to a three-year-old? Would you be like, you know, you really suck at this. You haven’t been able to do this in the last year. That feels terrible. And guess what, like none of us are feeling great right now, everything. and I think that that is another thing too, and that’s a whole nother conversation, but Like people are really low, Like really low. Like most people are not okay. And so the things that used to be mildly triggering are now like really triggering and so. people might follow an influencer that makes them feel like for like five minutes, right.
When it’s like, oh, I want her body and her makeup and the clothes and whatever. Like they might follow them for like a week. But eventually when you’re just tired of like feeling terrible and like, you’re not good enough. and like, you don’t look perfect enough. You’re going to. hit on Follow. Cause it feels terrible. And I think that a lot of us do that with our copy is like, try to make people feel terrible and going back to. The research, just the more, empowered people feel, the more, you know, the better they feel about themselves, the more, and the more you can make them feel that way, the more they’re going to trust you.
[00:54:45] Brittany McBean:
People buy from people they trust, you know,
And I think that right there is it’s the best feeling. Cause like some of these tactics we’ve talked about, look, I’m no, like I used to do them early on in the business. Cause that’s how I learned the past few years. Yeah. The past few years. For me and the business completely changed that. I mean, you and I have been working together for a year and a half now, but for the past few years, that transition has been happening.
And honestly, it really wasn’t until probably early 20, 21, like a year ago and I’m coming up on my, well, when this episode comes out, it’s eight years. I’ve been doing the business eight years now And There is no better feeling when you were doing things within, within your values and doing things, everything we’re talking about here, and you’re attracting the people that you want to serve through these ways, and they have the same types of values.
There’s no bad. And you’re in your businesses, thriving as a result of this, there’s no better feeling. There’s it just amazing.
[00:55:51] Brittany McBean:
It just lights you up. and I also think it’s super important to say that people who are following traditional marketing advice and doing these things are not bad people. Like if you’re like, I have a countdown timer, I have the FOMO, I have that value. So I can like, you are not a bad person. Like marketing does not profit off of people who use their critical thinking skills.
Like marketers. Teach you to copy and paste. And I don’t fault someone for not knowing what they don’t know, and maybe not stopping to think about an unintended consequences of something, because an expert that they look up to as told them this is the right thing to do. And, and I don’t think that that makes anybody a bad person and I don’t ever believe in faulting people for not knowing what they don’t know.
It really is like when you know, better, you do better. And it’s important to think of unintended consequences. It matters. It really, really, really matters, but you don’t have to like shame yourself or change everything. Just like do better, like one next right. Step at a time, and just think critically about what you’re doing and do the best you can.
And that’s good enough.
It’s such an interesting conversation. I’m so glad that we’re having it at the beginning of the year here in 2022. I think it’d be really interesting. The more case studies that we have throughout the year of where this is working so well, like this is what we’re talking about. This is what you were just taking us through here.
Here’s examples of.
Where this worked so well, I think would be really interesting to have you back on and start, you know, kind of throughout the year and sharing these examples of putting this, these sorts of things into practice into your business.
And look, here’s another example. here’s another example of thriving business.
When these types of practices are being, you know, used at the
[00:57:37] Brittany McBean:
Yeah. And I would challenge your listeners to like, like where is a place in your, your funnel, your launch, your copy, your marketing, anywhere where you are like actively coaching, a buying decision where you could be more transparent where like, just look through like, am I using a gimmick? Is there anything in here that like the intent is to like, get something, to make the buying decision, regardless of whether it’s right for them, you know, whether it is.
Disappearing bonus or FOMO or false scarcity. Like, can you flip the script a little bit and just say like, let them like, let them behind the curtain, like, just let them behind the scenes and say like, this is what’s going on. Just want to let you know. Try that out. Just pick one thing and then like send Rick an email, send me an email or leave a review.
Like I’m legitimately curious. Cause I, I would bet you money, not real money. Cause I gotta feed my kid, but I would bet you money that like you’re going to get some emails back being like thanks so much. That was so awesome and so helpful. And, and I really appreciate that. That means a lot to me and it feels pretty good.
Yeah, work people connect with you. I know people listening to this. They’re going to be like, I need my copy written by Brittany McBean.
[00:58:46] Brittany McBean:
Yes, I would love to ignore your Instagram DM because I’m terrible with keeping up with them. yeah, I scroll Instagram and TikTok, but I like never engaged in interact on there. if you want to just learn more and not pay me, YouTube is where I just kind of say everything I know for free. if you do want to work together, go to Brittany mcmeen.com forward slash contact.
You just fill out a form and you can get a meeting with me and we can chat and I’m not going to sell you. We can just chat. But if you do it by midnight tonight, then I’m going to throw in an extra a hundred thousand dollars in revenue. And I’m going to guarantee an 80% increase in conversion. And I’m all booked out until 2035.
So I’m really popular and everybody loves me. So you better get on my wait list.
You heard it here first, folks. I will link everything up in the show notes. I’ll also link up the previous two episodes that Brittany’s been on, because we talk a lot about the foundational things that we touched on today. Like finding your audience, speaking to them, how to do the research, et cetera, et cetera.
I’ll link that up in the show notes for today’s episode.
Brittany, as always, thank you.
[01:00:04] Brittany McBean:
Thank you for coming back on the show. I appreciate you.
[01:00:09] Brittany McBean:
Thanks for having me. Thanks for fighting with me.
Thanks so much for listening, as always, to the show today. Make sure that you hit that subscribe button. If you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, make sure you hit that follow button. On Spotify, whatever platform that you’re listening to, make sure you’re following the show here so you don’t miss any episodes coming out.
As I mentioned at the top of the show, we are accepting applications for our Accelerator coaching program. This is a one-on-one coaching, group coaching, and a mastermind coaching experience for established course creators, and/or coaches, and/or teacher entrepreneurs.
By established, that means you’re already doing at least a hundred thousand in revenue from your online business and you’re looking to scale, but you’re not really sure what next steps to be doing.
You’re not really sure how you should be spending your time. You’re likely overwhelmed. You might be feeling stuck. You might be having issues with growing your team, et cetera.
What we help you do in Accelerator is increase your profit, increase your impact, with less hustle. We help you to optimize your mindset, optimize your systems and processes, and optimize your sales and marketing
If this sounds like something they could help you, I would invite you to apply. Go to RickMulready.com/Accelerator.
Alright, my friends, as always, thank you so much for tuning in today.
Until next time, be well, and I’ll talk to you soon.